It’s been a while since I’ve participated in the PW dialogue. In part, this is because I’ve been very busy helping Faust Harrison Pianos grow and move in exciting new directions. However, it’s also because Frank’s strict new anti-sticky rules (ASR’s), instituted in the fall of 2011 in the spirit of democracy, have made it less rewarding for me to invest my creative energy in initiating PW posts of general public interest.

To be clear, I don’t in the least fault Frank for the position that he’s taken. If I were in his shoes, I might have done the same thing. Nevertheless, there is no longer a practical way for me or anyone (except, of course, Frank) to make an announcement of general public interest – or start a game for everyone’s general amusement – that will stay at the forefront long enough to be seen by more than a sliver of the PW membership universe.

So, on the one hand, democracy (in the form of one post = one vote) is seemingly well-served by ASR’s, but PW (IMO) has lost some of the interest and color that it once had.

Case in point: In pre-ASR days, as soon as an incredibly interesting article appeared in the NY Times about Pianos as Art at Faust Harrison Pianos

Piano as Art in the Sunday NY Times - Westchester/CT

I would have asked a moderator to sticky it up so that most moderately active PW members (not just diehard regulars) would get to read it. But now, in the present ASR era, someone (me or perhaps someone else) might post it, but barring a good, extended stream of congratulations and hoorays or the ignition of some controversy (contrived or otherwise), the post containing the announcement would disappear long before being seen by the majority of the audience for which it was intended.

I’m not complaining and I’m not taking a position on whether or not there should be strict ASR’s. I’m bringing the matter up because I wonder how many of us are aware of it or have given any thought to it. Should democracy always take priority? Or is the general public interest at least sometimes better served in other ways?

Congratulations on the article in the NY Times, Irving.

It was a very good write-up and a great PR and advertising plug for Faust Harrison Piano, I’m sure.

In regards to your highlighting in red, several times, Frank’s rule about the sticky-post for threads, all he asked was that he be contacted and approve any such request that a thread be “stickied” at the top of the forum page, and not any of the moderators.

Have you contacted him and asked him to sticky your current thread?

Frank’s actually a very reasonable fellow and this is his forum.

Rick

Rick,

I know that Frank is very reasonable. That's why I respect him and value him as a friend. When he turned down my request a few months ago to sticky a post about the opening of our new showroom in White Plains, NY, his decision to do so wasn't arbitrary. His reasoning, with which I take no issue, made it clear that sticky posts, with very few exceptions, were no longer going to be a part of PW unless...

So, in part, his "unless..." (perhaps not specifically stated, but surely what I infered) is what this thread is about. It's about letting Frank (and the rest of us) know what the body politic thinks about the matter. Are we better off with stickies or without them? If there are to be no stickies, what other devices might PW offer to people who want to post things that are of general interest - but that might not stay in view long enough for most of the intended audience to see.

Sounds like a good idea for a separate forum. I can only encouraging these types of posts. To hear that someone is doing something exciting, makes us all feel better and more motivated.

I'm new to this community, so let me just ask a naive and obvious question: why don't you buy a Piano World ad, referencing or even reprinting what sounds like a glowing newspaper profile of your store? (I was unable to open your link, so I'm just guessing it was a glowing NYT profile.)

This is a discussion community, and keyboard discussions arise and keyboard discussions wither. I don't grasp the "sticky" concept on PW at all. Unless it's a reminder of the rules of courteous discussion.

Those goofy "sticky" things at the top of a forum page just confound my Canadian mouse.

Peter,

Buying an ad does seem like an obvious solution – until I start to think about how it would work.

1. Imagine that you found a Piano as Art article in the NY Times that didn’t reference a PW member. Also imagine that you wanted to share this article with many PW members, including those who visit the site only occasionally. I doubt that you’d want to take out an ad. How would you share the article the way that you wanted?

2. Imagine that you had a great idea for a piano-related, challenging contest that many people would enjoy. Only a few people would likely participate in the contest, but a lot of people would want to read the solutions that the participants created. The cartoon caption contests in the New Yorker are, and the ones that I used to post here (as stickies) were, very popular. How would an ad serve the objectives of a caption contest? And why would someone run an ad that doesn’t promote his or her business?

3. Imagine that you’re an active contributing member of PW who just opened a new piano showroom or piano restoration factory that many PW members would enjoy knowing about (and seeing pictures of). Except for an initial string of congratulations, a post about the opening wouldn’t likely generate much discussion. So it would die long before many PW members would get to see it. An ad about the opening might work – to some degree. However, it would lack the personal element and the opportunity for interaction that makes PW posts more interesting and meaningful than ads.

4. How about pictures of a PW party (perhaps at a piano showroom but perhaps somewhere else)? Maybe there’s a corner for these somewhere, but I wonder how many potentially interested people would go there? As for an ad, that would surely make it all pretty impersonal. And who would or should pay for it?

As for PW being solely a discussion community, I don’t believe that it is. I see it as a place where people who have an interest in pianos can come not just to engage in dialogue, but to also learn fun and interesting things about the greater world of pianos. Stickies (IMHO) serve a purpose in this regard. So I like them. Others may not. My interest at this point is just to give the topic some air - to encourage people to think about the matter.

What was the rationale for making sticky posts, with very few exceptions, no longer a part of PW?

Maybe "conversational stickies" should be available for sale on PW: prose ads, with no graphics, that invite discussion if one wishes. Paid threads, in other words. They could be contests, they could be store announcements, book launches, whatever.

Irving,

Reading Rick's reply that follows your opening post, it seems pretty clear that the owner wishes to make the call on what is and is not an item of general interest. It's possible too that he wants to remove the moderators from the onerous responsibility of saying "NO" in cases. It's often demonstrated here that Rick and Ken both go out of their way to be accommodating to all here whenever possible. The role of interpreting what Frank would think is probably not comfortable for them, along of course with the possibility that they might have to say "NO" at some point to someone. Active retailers here are certainly into on-up-manship on occasion, and the possibilities of what a retailer might regard as news of general interest could broaden with every accommodation made to another retailer (pushing the envelope).

To me, you're right to refer to 'democracy' regarding this issue, but not in the sense you have chosen. I think the democracy is that each new thread is by default positioned at the top of the board, and how long it stays at or near the top will depend on the level of interest and input.



I see your point here, but what more does the retailer seek other than the honest well-wishes of those interested enough to reply?

Controversy can work of course. You kept the AvantGrand trilogy of threads (with the unwitting help of 8.5) on the hot burner for weeks on end simply because the digital / acoustic divide is a natural for controversy. Of course, manufacturing (contriving) a controversy from a store opening would be far more challenging -- but --- I personally stand ready to help.

Please post an unstickied thread (I know that's humiliating) of the store opening and how it's going. Supply no photos. When the chorus of well-wishers has retreated, I will respond asking about PW members' perks, privileges, and store discounts. Everyone loves a deal, so that should liven things up, and you can just quote deals made from MSRP. I believe it's common industry practice.

When thee action slows down and the helium begins to escape the balloon, I will reply that we need proof -- "Pictures please!". When the balloon begins to sink again, I will reply that the supplied stills are photoshopped shots of the Cunningham Piano showroom and factory. I will demand a link to a video tour of every corner of your new facility in which you are constantly on camera as the host. You can have the video ready beforehand and graciously comply. When the inevitable sink happens again, I will reply that the video is a hoax and that Irving has gone round the bend and is delusional. At that point the necessary elements of controversy will have been achieved and the sky will be the limit.

Irving,
Respectfully and in good spirit, after I clicked the link I said.
Seriously???
IT killed my excitement what all that has to do with pianos or music?
For what is worth is just bunch of garbage piled up, it could've been screws or cans, it happens to be piano trash.

I have seen really great piano or music related topics faded-out fast by lack of response from members of the PF but unfortunately this one I can hardly think can be of any interest.
Good luck with your new project.

I am also new to this forum and I have to agree with Frank in this matter. I don't think store openings or piano art are sticky material. A separate sub-forum would be a better idea. Just my 2 cents.

I’m not complaining and I’m not taking a position on whether or not there should be strict ASR’s. I’m bringing the matter up because I wonder how many of us are aware of it or have given any thought to it. Should democracy always take priority? Or is the general public interest at least sometimes better served in other ways?- irving

Should democracy always take priority?
Yes.
Does it?
No. Not when capitalism comes into play.

Who decides what is public interest?
I played a concert last week in Manhattan at the legendary Small's jazz club. What if I felt that MY gig was worthy of being stickied because certainly live piano music is of public interest to the members of PW.
What if so and so PW member restored a 1920's Steinway and documented every step of the project and felt that THEIR post was worthy enough of public interest to be stickied?
What if another member feels that THEIR child is a great prodigy and that their youtube video of a truly inspired performance of Golliwog's Cakewalk is most definately of great public interest...

I could see this site quickly becoming one big mess of stickies.

No offense intended Irving but i personally think that if you believe that YOUR 'announcements' here warrant a throne at the very top of page one on PW separate from the rest, then you may be suffering slight delusions of grandeur. I'm sure Frank would be more than happy to give you a great big spotlight to trumpet your doings if you were to cough up the advertising dollars that every other advertiser here is required to do.

I personally think that employing an unbiased and democratic approach to the way these forums are run is a huge step in the right direction.

Of course irving is complaining but without wanting to look like he's complaining- so he's cloaking it in a lot of verbiage about democracy and the
"general public interest". oh please.

AJF, your points are right on target .