Thanks for that Jerry - I realise things can be taken the wrong way at times here, I'm sure you didn't really mean to offend anyone. I do hope you're feeling a great deal better soon though m8.

No John and everyone else, I never mean to offend anyone. Sometimes, I do get a little bit grumpy though from some of the pain from my fall. Sorry..... I put on my happy face now. See?

As I said, I try to tune to the same standards on all pianos, small ones as well as big ones. The small pianos may not sound as good as the big ones, but they sound very good for what they are. Some performances are on small pianos, just because that is what is available.

Unfortunately your avatar sort of counteracts the .

LOL! It really does, doesn't it???

I want to support Jerry here because a concert tuning cannot be put on any spinet, console or upright piano.. nor a grand up to about 6' I would say. Around 6' scale designs change to the point where it opens the possiblity.

Staying strictly to tunings and not full 'concert service' - concert tuning is completely different than a regular fine tuning. It is not just a more precise tuning. The scale design on a cheap or small piano simply cannot align with the precision that a good scale can, so the option to 'concert tune' is not even on the plate.

Instead on a fine tuning for a small piano, the goal is the highest quality tuning with what the instrument is capable of, which requires a completely different tuning style. I listen for more optimal blending of partials and consistency of 3rds, 6ths and 10ths etc. No single interval will resonate perfectly, so artistic compromise is the goal. This is the most the piano is capable of.

On a great piano, intervals sing with clarity and power. The piano speaks its voice clearly and tells you where it needs to be, where it wants to be. Partial relationships are different. The octave partials have greater bandwidth and therefore are capable of more flexibility, which allows other partials to be dialed in more precisely, under the flexibility of the octave.

The regular fine tuning is difficult because it's very hard to get a bad scale to align well, but it is easier because there's fewer audible partials present and there is no optimal point anyway, but instead a zone of acceptibility.

A concert tuning is easier because the scale is so clear and ready to align - but much more difficult if you know what you are doing and can hear up to the 30 partials on a single string that are then present and audible. It demands more presence, listening and precision because the instrument is capable of it.

To use the popular car analogy: a great mechanic would ideally put in the same attention on a jalopy and a Maserati, but the quality of work demanded by the Maserati would be completely different and more discerning.

Ok, there appears to be a slight difference in views ... but I think everyone is correct.

Jerry's view is correct in so far as a concert tuning on a concert grand will sound a great deal better than a really good quality tuning on any other piano. However the other view is equally valid, in as much as the actual technique to tune to concert standards can be applied to each and every piano... the resultant end product will be a piano tuning with high stability and hard to improve, but not of the same sounding quality as that of a full concert grand.

I've just returned home from tuning a Steinway D at Alnwick Castle for a concert tonight, and the tuning was done with great care, ending up sounding just as it should. However,
I also tuned a Challen upright and small Essex grand on the way back home, each of which had the same quality tuning .... but I agree that they both sound, not a patch on the D.

It is a matter of viewpoint. I look at it as a technique. Others are looking at it as results.

Technique is what is important to me, because there is usually no control over the piano I have to tune. I have tuned small grands, uprights, and even spinets for concerts. I have a series of dance performances coming up, and it will be with an upright, because that is what is there.

If you start demanding a concert grand for every performance, pretty soon there will not be any performances. It just is not good economic sense.

Well, I managed to get my pain under control, for the most part so, I'm a happy camper again. See?


It is the best possible tuning that one can put onto "a piano."


Actually, this is an interesting question really. Each of us looks at the above questions, with different eyes and with different thinking not able to read the minds of the other techs writing or what exactly, we are each thinking or considering as we write our response.

Generally speaking with concert instruments, we are accustomed (for the most part) with working on instruments that are extremely well taken care of. Not always, but, usually... That will make or break an excellent concert tuning into possibly a "so so" concert tuning if we have lots of other issues or problems to deal with such as, oh say dozens of REALLY, REALLY false strings. Or, voicing issues and a shortage of time, just a couple of thoughts on that....

Really to each their own thinking I guess. We all try and do the best job possible under any given circumstance right? Regardless of piano make?

What will make a difference though, is a piano that breaks strings during a full tone pitch raise requiring additional time to fix and possibly making what you just tuned, go out of tune somewhat, or, one that has nothing but bobbling hammers. With bobbling hammers, we cannot hear as well which will make it more difficult to do a really fine job of tuning. Sometimes it may require a 2nd trip to fix all of it when we only planned on a tuning to begin with.

As John says, I think we are all correct.

Of course, I'm more correct though. Now, honestly, you really didn't think I was going to be totally serious DID YOU!!!??? hahahaaaaa!

So pleased you've got your sense of humour back Mr Groot - Lets hope your RPT status can evolve into Repeated Pain Terminated

Hahaha, me too!!!!!! I like your RPT status thingy! Chuckled at it. Just so long as none of us become an RPTPITA! Hehehehe.