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#60566 - 10/03/07 11:53 PM Piano Search Journey
allthumbs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 115
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Greetings

I've been on a search for my dream 7' piano for a few years now in contemplation of my eventual retirement and downsizing of my home, thus freeing up the requisite funds for such a purchase.

I've played on several Steinway B, Petrof II, Schimmel CC213, Kawai RX6, Yamaha C6 and S6 models among others over the course of my search. While they all were very good pianos that 'spoke' to me, at the time they were out of my price range.

Back in January, I came across the name Sauter, a piano with a dealer out in Surrey. I called this dealer and spoke with the owner and he stated that he didn't have any Sauters in at the moment, but he stated that he had a relatively new piano make that was made in China.

He explained that ex-Bosendorfer executives had left the company and started their own Brodmann factory under their guidance and direction in China.

I went to the dealer and was met by Norbert Martens, from Heritage Pianos. He was very knowledgeable and passionate about the pianos he represented. He showed me the Brodmann 6'3" that he had and I was blown away by the sound and feel of this piano. The price was unbelievable as well!

I explained my situation that I would not be in a position to make such a purchase until sometime after my retirement coming up in August. I also had my heart set on a 7-foot model.

He told me that he had one on order and would let me know when it came in, as they were hard to get.

Well, he e-mailed me recently and I went down to see and play this model. WOW, it was unbelievable in sound, touch and finish. I could compare this piano favorably with any of the above-mentioned pianos and for a price 1/2 to 1/3 the cost. For me, this was my dream piano as it certainly 'spoke' to me.

Unfortunately, I'm still not in a position moneywise or spacewise yet, (I already have a small grand that belongs to my daughters) to buy this piano.

I did try to arrange it though, but it wasn't to be at this time.

I believe this new piano will do very well in the piano market.

I know Norbert is a member of this forum as I have read some of his posts in the past since joining last January. I would like to take this opportunity to thank him for taking the time to share his knowledge and passion for pianos with me.

Hopefully, I will be ready and able to make my dream purchase in the near future and I will go and see Norbert again, as I know he'll look after me.


Thanks


allthumbs
_________________________
Sauter Delta (185cm) polished ebony 'Lucy'
Serial # 118 562

Single Malts Forever!

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#60567 - 10/04/07 12:03 AM Re: Piano Search Journey
T.S.R. Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/08/06
Posts: 231
Loc: Chicago, IL
Sounds interesting. Perhaps finally an affordable and yet exquisite alternative for all of us poor piano players \:\) Now that you mentioned it, I'm going to look them up.

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#60568 - 10/04/07 11:57 AM Re: Piano Search Journey
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14120
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Allthumbs, Thank you for your kind words - it was a pleasure to meet you!

Hoping that your retirement plans including your new music career will be as successful as planned!

Norbert \:\)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#60569 - 10/04/07 12:25 PM Re: Piano Search Journey
kluurs Offline
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/24/02
Posts: 3739
Loc: Chicago
I've yet to touch a Brodmann - but I have heard great things about this piano. I hope you find your way to your piano in the near future. I hope to try them out myself before too long.

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#60570 - 10/04/07 12:36 PM Re: Piano Search Journey
diinin Offline
Full Member

Registered: 04/30/07
Posts: 391
Loc: Indianapolis
Wish I could find a Brodmann to try also.

I hope you can find a way to get it into your home soon! What a wonderful retirement celebration that would be.

Norbert's a good guy. I can tell that without ever having met him.
_________________________
Charles Walter Queen Anne 1520 (polished cherry)
Roland fp-4 (black)

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#60571 - 10/07/07 04:26 AM Re: Piano Search Journey
allthumbs Offline
Full Member

Registered: 01/17/07
Posts: 115
Loc: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Thanks Norbert and diinin.
_________________________
Sauter Delta (185cm) polished ebony 'Lucy'
Serial # 118 562

Single Malts Forever!

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#60572 - 10/27/07 02:57 PM Re: Piano Search Journey
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14120
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Short update:

Today we sold this particular piano to someone who had come from out of town specifically to make a selection among some of our high end pianos.

Money here did not appear to be an issue here.....

You see, such are things right now going in this business. \:o

http://www.brodmann-pianos.at/grand_piano_2120.html


Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#60573 - 02/11/09 06:41 PM Re: Piano Search Journey
Nick Mauel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 783
Loc: Sarasota and Naples, FL
My customers, too have found this same Brodmann piano 7' model 212 to be a very impressive instrument! Not just a big bass, but a beautiful sustaining treble that the bass does not overpower like in a lot of 7' and larger pianos.

This particular piano was recorded at my showroom by a customer and discussed here on this thread:

http://www.pianoworld.com/ubb/cgi-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?/topic/1/24788.html

At the beginning of the thread there is a link to the MP3 files. You can listen to several Jazz standards which showed off the piano very nicely. Listeners were asked to guess the type of piano they were hearing, and many posted guesses of much more expensive pianos as was also described by the opening poster of this thread. When it was later revealed what piano it was the reaction was "Ha! Chalk one up for Brodmann."

It turned out to be a very interesting discovery of the Brodmann piano and I enjoyed playing a part in this by tuning and voicing the piano for the recording.

Thanks,

Nick Mauel
_________________________
Nick's Piano Showroom
Naples, Fort Myers, & Sarasota, FL
New Estonia, Mason & Hamlin, Baldwin, Brodmann & Ritmuller
239-206-4541 direct line
www.nickspiano.com

Concert Piano Technician, Dealer, and Pianist

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#60574 - 02/11/09 07:48 PM Re: Piano Search Journey
Rickster Offline


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8429
Loc: Georgia, USA
Hi Nick,

The piano in the recordings sound fantastic! The playing ain't too shabby either. \:D

Thanks for sharing it.

Rick
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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#60575 - 02/11/09 07:50 PM Re: Piano Search Journey
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19231
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
Originally posted by Norbert:
Short update:

Today we sold this particular piano to someone who had come from out of town specifically to make a selection among some of our high end pianos.

Money here did not appear to be an issue here.....
[/b]
If money was *really* not an issue and the customer didn't choose a Sauter over a B--------(can't reveal the name for fear of free ad \:\) ), it doesn't say good things about Sauter(fallboard permanently locked closed?) and/or the customer's taste. Or if the B------ is really so good, I guess Sauter is overpriced at close to 4X the MSRP?? :rolleyes:

A snooze alarm

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#60576 - 02/11/09 09:46 PM Re: Piano Search Journey
Nick Mauel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 783
Loc: Sarasota and Naples, FL
Quote from pianoloverus:

"A snooze alarm is needed for these boringly predictable, endlessly repetitive(rep. ad libitum), simplistically silly, credibility crushing , bombastic and bloatingly blatant "used car salesman like" dealer self promo infomercials."

I agree that words don't mean a whole lot, so that is why I have recordings to prove it! This is the same piano that the opening poster described playing, and now all can hear and judge whether or not what some only say in 'words' is just a bunch of hype or not.

This should enhance, not destroy, the credibility of the statements that Norbert and others have made.

Here's another tune on the Brodmann, New Orleans by Hoagy Carmichael:

http://www.box.net/static/flash/box_explorer.swf?widgetHash=t6v4lca1up&cl=0&v=0

Also, I have this performance on video and will eventually post it on my web site, so you will be able to 'see' the pianist is playing the Brodmann piano.

I agree that you can compare the Brodmann piano favorably to pianos costing much more. It's not self promotion, it's education, and I think that's what people are here for!

Respectfully,

Nick Mauel
_________________________
Nick's Piano Showroom
Naples, Fort Myers, & Sarasota, FL
New Estonia, Mason & Hamlin, Baldwin, Brodmann & Ritmuller
239-206-4541 direct line
www.nickspiano.com

Concert Piano Technician, Dealer, and Pianist

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#60577 - 02/11/09 10:52 PM Re: Piano Search Journey
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14120
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
pianoloverus:

Since you are very quick with your wit, judgement and deep insight into things, when have you last played a Brodmann 7' semi- concert grand side by side to a Sauter 6'?

And when you *did* - what were your impressions?

Specifically, as was in our case, you're shopping for a church with about 300 seats, which piano would *you* have chosen in the end - and *why*?

Thanks for sharing your deep insight and highly appreciated professional assessment - we're all here to learn!

One more thing if I may: how were the pianos prepped when you tried them, about same or a bit different from each other?

Norbert
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#60578 - 02/12/09 07:06 AM Re: Piano Search Journey
pianoloverus Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/29/01
Posts: 19231
Loc: New York City
 Quote:
Originally posted by Nick Mauel:
This should enhance, not destroy, the credibility of the statements that Norbert and others have made.

Also, I have this performance on video and will eventually post it on my web site...

It's not self promotion, it's education, and I think that's what people are here for!

[/b]
Truth or credibility of statements is not the point and never has been. The point is appropriate dealer behavior/posting based on the forum rules.

The recording and performance video belongs on your website(ONLY).

Of course it's self promotion :rolleyes: . Or, if not, when can we expect you to "educate" us at length(please include videos and pictures)about the merits of brands you don't sell? \:D

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#60579 - 02/12/09 12:42 PM Re: Piano Search Journey
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
 Quote:
Or when can we expect you to "educate" us at length(please include videos and pictures)about the merits of brands you don't sell?
That is certainly the joke of the day! \:D

Asking dealers to educate us about brands they only know indirectly as they don't sell them.

Let all posters talk about the brands they hardly know anything about and let us all be educated. \:\)

More seriously; a dealer as a salesman and representative of the manufacturer is supposed to know the products better than any outside 'expert'. If not, he is not a good representative of that brand.

I personally always learned a lot from what dealers posted on this forum and also learned when some statements needed to be taken with a grain of salt. I believe that applies for most members.

schwammerl.

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#60580 - 02/12/09 12:55 PM Re: Piano Search Journey
windsound Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 177
Loc: IL
I happened to play a 7' Brodmann once, it is a good choice for the price but it is not as good as a Yamaha C6 or C7.

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#60581 - 02/12/09 01:48 PM Re: Piano Search Journey
Nick Mauel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 783
Loc: Sarasota and Naples, FL
Brodmann is not trying to make their pianos sound like Yamaha or other Asian brands. The focus is rather on the European elements.

Not everyone who likes Japanese pianos will go for it - it is different because it is more European than Japanese. Some people are just very used to Japanese pianos and the way they sound, but...

I have customers who were Yamaha owners and who never thought they would buy anything but a Yamaha choose the Brodmann as their next piano.

I have customers who were Kawai owners and who never thought they would buy anything but a Kawai choose the Brodmann as their next piano.

Brodmann offers something different that appeals to both of these customers, which is mainly achieved by voicing them to different degrees of brightness.

The prepwork plays an essential part in customizing the tone and touch to the player's exact preference.
_________________________
Nick's Piano Showroom
Naples, Fort Myers, & Sarasota, FL
New Estonia, Mason & Hamlin, Baldwin, Brodmann & Ritmuller
239-206-4541 direct line
www.nickspiano.com

Concert Piano Technician, Dealer, and Pianist

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#60582 - 02/12/09 03:54 PM Re: Piano Search Journey
windsound Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/09/08
Posts: 177
Loc: IL
Many people in this forum are dealers promoting their own products so there are a bunch of advertisments...

Well, I visited a dealer who sells both Yamaha and Brodmann so there were no "customers who were Yamaha owners...choose the Brodmann as their next piano."

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#60583 - 02/12/09 05:01 PM Re: Piano Search Journey
Nick Mauel Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/05/08
Posts: 783
Loc: Sarasota and Naples, FL
Windsound,

I'm sure that both of our experiences are a reality! The reason that I can focus on Brodmann is because I am NOT a Yamaha dealer, and I have had excellent results with them.

However, the Yamaha dealer's attitude toward Brodmann is likely to be somewhat apathetic, and this attitude would naturally rub off on their customers, especially the existing Yamaha owners. Some dealers also like to tie up lines because it keeps competition away, and have no need to try and do them any justice. Some dealers actually keep brands on their floor in a poor state of tuning and regulation, not giving them the proper attention when there are other more 'famous' brands available in their showroom.

Before taking the Brodmann line, I had been repeatedly contacted by company representatives but didn't take it seriously at all. However, I continued to hear and read more and more about them, so I told the company that I would like to visit the nearest dealer for an evaluation. The dealer I visited had MANY very good piano brands. The Brodmanns were sort of set to the side, not being given very much attention. With all of that candy in the store it was easy to ignore them! Why bother? But I sat down and played, and inspected, and just spent time with them. I thought 'wow I could do a lot with these pianos' - although it was just normal dealer service that was not being done. I was able to hear through the lack of tuning, etc. to realize just how beautiful these pianos would sound.

I do not want to be one of those accused of promoting, but wanted to answer your last post. I hope to post nothing further. Maybe Norbert can explain a bit more. He claims even to have received trades of Japanese pianos for Brodmanns. Norbert, where are you?

Many of the dealers who sell the most well known brands do this simply as a 'business decision'. But times are certainly changing. I think that many pianoworld readers are digging for more information, and I hope they can find it here.

Sincerely,

Nick Mauel
_________________________
Nick's Piano Showroom
Naples, Fort Myers, & Sarasota, FL
New Estonia, Mason & Hamlin, Baldwin, Brodmann & Ritmuller
239-206-4541 direct line
www.nickspiano.com

Concert Piano Technician, Dealer, and Pianist

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#60584 - 02/12/09 05:15 PM Re: Piano Search Journey
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14120
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
 Quote:
Maybe Norbert can explain a bit more. He claims even to have received trades of Japanese pianos for Brodmanns. Norbert, where are you?
This is true and we recently took a G2 grand in trade.

For all those tempted to jump with knives at me, trading in is something that can happen with - and *against* any brand.

We have had Steinways, Kawais, Petrofs and Bostons
and perhaps someone else has had Faziolis, Sauters and Grotrians. \:D

In fact I know guys who traded their beautiful wifes against a dumb whore.

So, put your knives back before someone offers to trade it against a Mauser....

Norbert ;\)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#60585 - 02/12/09 05:23 PM Re: Piano Search Journey
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14120
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Oh, forgot to place a picture of the "out-of-town" shopper I mentioned before.

Beautiful new church about 500 miles from here...

http://www.pianoworld.com:80/Uploads/files/CHURCH2.jpg

http://www.pianoworld.com:80/Uploads/files/CHURCH.jpg

Norbert \:\)
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#60586 - 02/12/09 05:40 PM Re: Piano Search Journey
Silverwood Pianos Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/10/08
Posts: 4187
Loc: Vancouver B. C. Canada
Norbert;

Your quotes:

“For all those tempted to jump with knives at me, trading in is something that can happen with - and *against* any brand”

“So, put your knives back before someone offers to trade it against a Mauser…."
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

When I heard the 7ft. Brodman played here only one thought came to mind. Why spend another 70K just to put a different name on the fallboard?

You can do a lot of things with an extra 70K let me tell you. For example, you could purchase this forum from Frank and kick all of the imbeciles out of here……….you know the ones I am talking about,……. the members that spend their entire time here trying to direct other members how to post, what to post and on and on. Plenty of threads to read………….. If you don’t like the content of this one try another one down the hall. Some of the members here are way too emotionally involved with this place.

Sheesh…. Find something actually important in your life to worry about…..and let the owner and the moderators do what they do.

Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
_________________________
Dan Silverwood
www.silverwoodpianos.com
http://silverwoodpianos.blogspot.com/
http://www.facebook.com/SilverwoodPianosDotCom
"If you think it's expensive to hire a professional to do the job, wait until you hire an amateur."

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