m402-404: I have problems with these runs. I'm an amateur and no way will this sound good three times in a row. And it just sounds as if I fumble and play the same measure again and again. There are similar passages before that but this is the worst. Any ideas on how to approach this? The quintuplet is almost twice as fast as the triplets, is this how it's normally done or can this be played more freely? Also, my edition, and even the original manuscript, has a forte mark in 403 and 404 but not in 402. Are these really to be played differently? I've never heard that brought out.

Hi Troglodyte: I checked my Schnabel edition (which unfortunately doesn't have measure numbers but I think I'm in the spot you're referring to), and it shows a sforzando (rather than a forte) on the first eighth-note of the second and third repetitions of this figure but not on the first. This is a slight accent which I think merely serves to give slight emphasis to the leap in the melody here and which is not present at the first occurrence this figure.

I listened to Barenboim playing this and he does slightly accent the first eighth-note on the second and third instances of this figure, but not on the first.

As for your trouble executing these passages, what sort of fingering are you using? Schnabel has 3-2-5-4-3-2-1-4-3-2-1 which I think would work pretty well.

Regards,

John

Thanks. I begin with 4 - 3. Will try 3 - 2, but I doubt it makes a difference.

Also I listened to Barenboim, the difference between the three measures is very small. Interesting that Schanbel has sf where the Beethoven manuscript has f. As I recall Schnabel has lots of comments, does he mention this point at all?

You're right that Schnabel often has a lot of footnoted comments in his edition, sometimes taking up half of the page. In this case though, no, he does not comment on this. He does, however have editorial fortes (they appear as smaller than normal f's) in bars 397-398, 400, 402-404, in addition to the sf's already mentioned (bars 397, 399, 401, 403, and 404) which are in regular-size type.

I'd be curious to take a look at it if you have a link to a facsimile of the MS. To be generous, Beethoven's musical notation and handwriting are not the easiest to decipher. A first edition would be useful to look at too, as Beethoven may have made alterations to what his copyist produced initially.

Regards,

John

Enjoy...

http://www.beethoven-haus-bonn.de/sixcms...&_seite=1-2

I just finished looking at a number of editions of this sonata including the first edition, and it seems Schnabel is utterly alone in putting sforzandos in his edition--all the others I looked at show fortes. One could perhaps infer, in the absence of any markings indicating any changes in dynamics in this passage, that subsequent fortes after the first one would be superfluous unless they were intended to be treated as accents.

Regards,

John