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Page 17 of 17 < 1 2 ... 15 16 17
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#2284024 - 06/01/14 05:22 AM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1492
Loc: KZ
Dear technicians. For me it is very important your opinion and your evaluation. Today I found this video on the network. It was 04.11. 2014. This is three weeks before my tuning two grand piano in a school
http://youtu.be/jLuhfKt5Kjg
Is there a positive dynamics of my corrections in my tuning? Or it does not was?
http://youtu.be/GdhCjtzJoRY
Regards,Max
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

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#2285164 - 06/03/14 12:33 PM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan]
rxd Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/11/09
Posts: 1703
Loc: London, England
Max, could your spread in the unisons be a conscious or subconscious attempt to ameliorate the harsh tone quality of these pianos? Good unisons only serve to focus the harshness and hardness of the hammers but tuning poor unisons doesn't really solve the problem. It only disguises it while creating another.

While it is possible for a highly skilled pianist to produce a variety of more acceptable tone qualities even from these pianos, some tone regulation that keeps most of the attack but increases depth of tone and removes the hardness (clankiness) from the tone would make the pianists' work easier while retaining their ability to manipulate the tone quality as they play.

Well practiced as the pianists on your videos are, tone quality is not uppermost in their minds.

This is highly skilled work that can be practiced on old hammers before they are replaced or on a piano that is on its last legs anyway and could only be improved while gaining experience.

There are some single needle techniques mentioned recently that you could practice. Each hammer will be of uneven hardness so deal with only those hammers that are the loudest first after sanding all the hammers as close to the original shape as you can.
Practice on old spent uprights first so that you develop a good idea of what you are doing.

As you improve the tone, see how much you can also improve your unisons.

_________________________
Concert & Recording tuner-tech, London, England.
"in theory, practice and theory are the same thing. In practice, they're not." - Lawrence P. 'Yogi' Berra.

Eschew obfuscation.



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#2285285 - 06/03/14 05:32 PM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan]
Olek Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/14/08
Posts: 7223
Loc: France
ALso, with a so hard tone, the ear get tired an "forget" to listen to the hard attack (unless you play very softly)

I agree the defects of voicing may be very apparent once the piano is tuned, . That is what help to voice efficiently, the harshness can be a little reduced by unison eventually but that is not worth the effort.

It is clearly hear that you have tried to even the tone. That mean that you gained some mastering of the lever manipulation, which is good.

I think that massaging the hammers with pliers could help to hear better what need to be voiced, because it will "close" the tone somehow and make the shoulders more supple.

Hardness will still be present but more sustained tone will show you the way.
Just try on one hammer on a too clear note for instance.
Pliers will at the same time free the crown and ad some resiliency to the shoulders (temporarely unfortunately)







Edited by Olek (06/03/14 10:17 PM)
_________________________
Isaac OLEG - http://picasaweb.google.fr/PianoOleg pro

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#2285374 - 06/03/14 09:36 PM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Maximillyan]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1492
Loc: KZ
My dear teachers, Isaac & RXD.
I'm very happy for your complete answers. Hope this will help me continue my work. Today I will study ALL. Now a lot of work in the garden. I shall hard work in the vegetable beds to survive in future.
I will very carefully study your every word.
Regards Max
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

Top
#2285987 - 06/05/14 08:27 AM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: rxd]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1492
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: rxd
Max, could your spread in the unisons be a conscious or subconscious attempt to ameliorate the harsh tone quality of these pianos? Good unisons only serve to focus the harshness and hardness of the hammers but tuning poor unisons doesn't really solve the problem. It only disguises it while creating another.

While it is possible for a highly skilled pianist to produce a variety of more acceptable tone qualities even from these pianos, some tone regulation that keeps most of the attack but increases depth of tone and removes the hardness (clankiness) from the tone would make the pianists' work easier while retaining their ability to manipulate the tone quality as they play.

Well practiced as the pianists on your videos are, tone quality is not uppermost in their minds.

This is highly skilled work that can be practiced on old hammers before they are replaced or on a piano that is on its last legs anyway and could only be improved while gaining experience.

There are some single needle techniques mentioned recently that you could practice. Each hammer will be of uneven hardness so deal with only those hammers that are the loudest first after sanding all the hammers as close to the original shape as you can.
Practice on old spent uprights first so that you develop a good idea of what you are doing.

As you improve the tone, see how much you can also improve your unisons.


Good day,my dear,rxd.
Rather, I did it more than consciously. Should also be noted that at first I was taken aback and did not know how to act when I did found that grands . it's public playing was not enough time for me tuning before. Between two grand pianos had bad tones. I took a chance and made it's as soon as possible. I understand that you are all well noted many things about my tuning here.But I had still huge difficulties. Especially with " Petrof ", who refused to had good unison. I am very slowly builded each unison repeatedly checking and verifying hearing effect of their actions. City audience was satisfied with my sound , but I realize that this is not something that should be at the city concert. A sound must better .
Yes , the ladies pianist deserve better sound. And they did play a super class for these unsightly pianos , I think so. You correctly pointed out that I tried was only a " hidden flaws " but I could not make a good pitch ( Good unisons only serve to focus the harshness and hardness of the hammers but tuning poor unisons doesn't really solve the problem. It only disguises it while creating another). But I made a try it's
To improve the piano sound by improving the technical properties of the hammer , I shall read certainly about needles and grinding , etc. I have their own training , I 'll just make for junk on the piano , as you recommend ( that you develop a good idea of &#8203;&#8203;what you are doing and understand it's . )
Perhaps improve their own unison will help improve my whole tuning. I sure hope so .
Regards, Max
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

Top
#2285994 - 06/05/14 08:39 AM Re: What think technicians about of max's temperament? [Re: Olek]
Maximillyan Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/12/11
Posts: 1492
Loc: KZ
Originally Posted By: Olek
ALso, with a so hard tone, the ear get tired an "forget" to listen to the hard attack (unless you play very softly)

I agree the defects of voicing may be very apparent once the piano is tuned, . That is what help to voice efficiently, the harshness can be a little reduced by unison eventually but that is not worth the effort.

It is clearly hear that you have tried to even the tone. That mean that you gained some mastering of the lever manipulation, which is good.

I think that massaging the hammers with pliers could help to hear better what need to be voiced, because it will "close" the tone somehow and make the shoulders more supple.

Hardness will still be present but more sustained tone will show you the way.
Just try on one hammer on a too clear note for instance.
Pliers will at the same time free the crown and ad some resiliency to the shoulders (temporarely unfortunately)






I shall read ALL your german link. Thank your very much, Isaac. And I soon shall find this pliers as on pictures
_________________________
A=440
http://www.donguluk.ucoz.ru/

Top
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