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#2138433 - 08/24/13 05:56 PM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: laguna_greg]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11843
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: laguna_greg
Sorry to disagree, Key, but no, the student is not legally bound by any agreements their teacher may sign.

No, the student isn't legal bound. But the student is still unable to study with that teacher because the teacher is not allowed to teach that student, because that student had once studied with that teacher within that organization.

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#2138453 - 08/24/13 07:04 PM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: keystring]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Well consider that if the student drops out of the school, then 3 or 6 months later approaches the teacher to study privately. I've known a number of teachers who will accept students in that time frame.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2138454 - 08/24/13 07:07 PM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: laguna_greg]
keystring Offline
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Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11843
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: laguna_greg
Well consider that if the student drops out of the school, then 3 or 6 months later approaches the teacher to study privately. I've known a number of teachers who will accept students in that time frame.

That would certainly be fine. If there is no indefiniteness to the clause. In any case, I'd hope for reasonableness and common sense.

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#2138462 - 08/24/13 07:37 PM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: keystring]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Originally Posted By: keystring

That would certainly be fine. If there is no indefiniteness to the clause. In any case, I'd hope for reasonableness and common sense.



... and that is so often lacking in business relations!
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2138467 - 08/24/13 07:48 PM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: catpiano]
childofparadise2002 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/13/04
Posts: 542
A lot of times it's not just (or not at all) a legal issue, it's about whether something looks good in colleagues' eyes. This senario (student leaving school because he wants to be with a teacher who can't take him in the one day she teaches at the school but does have space in her own studio, even though he waits 3-6 months) is probably legal but probably still won't look good in fellow teachers' eyes. I think that is the real tricky part. The legal part is spelled out clearly and is easy to follow.

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#2138490 - 08/24/13 08:52 PM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: childofparadise2002]
keystring Offline
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Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11843
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: childofparadise2002
A lot of times it's not just (or not at all) a legal issue, it's about whether something looks good in colleagues' eyes. This senario (student leaving school because he wants to be with a teacher who can't take him in the one day she teaches at the school but does have space in her own studio, even though he waits 3-6 months) is probably legal but probably still won't look good in fellow teachers' eyes. I think that is the real tricky part. The legal part is spelled out clearly and is easy to follow.

As a teacher, which I still also am, anything that enables a student to learn looks good in my eyes. Learning (education) is the priority. That is what teaching is about. How does taking a student privately harm a student's ability to learn? It doesn't, so it would not look bad in a fellow teacher's eyes.

Anyway, this is getting too philosophical.

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#2138502 - 08/24/13 09:11 PM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: keystring]
childofparadise2002 Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 09/13/04
Posts: 542
It is indeed more complicated than that. If it's that simple, then no school should have non-compete clause----because then the only guiding principle would be whether something is good for a student. But in reality, schools are businesses, so are private studios. There are indeed business interests that these entities need to protect. This is not just true for piano teaching, it's true for every single business and profession. It's also hard to argue that there is no other teacher at the school who can teach this student equally well----if indeed no other teacher could teach the student well, then this actually is the perfect teason why the student should leave the school.

There have been discussions here in this very forum about what circumstances are right or wrong for private teachers to accept a student from a fellow teacher or to "seek" a student from a fellow teacher. All these cases are the same in nature except that in this thread one of the businesses is a school and in the past discussions both entities are private studios.

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#2138555 - 08/25/13 12:03 AM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: childofparadise2002]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Oh Please!!!

Look child, the problem is that we are running a business, not an art form or a college. We all live in countries where there is an open, free-market economy, with everything that means good and bad, Ayn Rand notwithstanding.

Which means that, at the beginning- and intermediate-student level, the good will of your colleagues means little or nothing at all business-wise if you are building a studio. It's catch as catch can, and to the winner go the spoils of victory. Because your colleagues aren't going to help you at all if there is no direct benefit to them somehow (read: money). From my experience, "collegial good will" simply doesn't exist at this level.

Can you imagine the owner of the previously described school referring any of their students to a private teacher? I can't. And there are many, many instances where that would be the (highly) ethical thing to do. But since it doesn't serve their business interests, they won't do it generally. Ethically, they should. But they don't! Who is served in that instance?

That's the nature of a free market economy. Let's just disabuse ourselves of the notion that things aren't actually that way. Because your competition is never going to be happy that you got more business, as it looks (to them) like you stole it from them no matter what you do!

Why on earth are you taking the side of the school over the teacher?

Do you own a school??
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2138571 - 08/25/13 12:31 AM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: ezpiano.org]
catpiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/20/12
Posts: 55
Originally Posted By: ezpiano.org
Originally Posted By: OP
I realized how much more I enjoyed teaching privately than at the music center, I started pursuing it more seriously and ended up with an almost full studio!


Originally Posted By: PianoDad
Thinking from the music school's perspective, it's hard to avoid the impression (even if this is not at all the teacher's intention) that the teacher's one-day-per-week music school time is designed explicitly to troll the school for additional students.


If I am OP and have almost a full studio, I will not go back to music school to teach one day a week. Instead, I will concentrate at my own studio, making flyers to get more students.

So, even if this is not OP's intention at all, I have the impression that OP's one-day-per-week is designed to troll the school for additional students. So, I agree with Piano Dad.

OP is using the word "stealing" at her title, I think she really knows better in this subject before she asked here.

Just my opinions.


I haven't read through all your responses yet, but I just have to stop right there and dispute that. No, that was not my intention AT ALL in returning to the school. I returned for several reasons, and I will name a few:

1. I missed my colleagues. I liked the atmosphere and having other musicians around, and having people to talk to throughout the day besides kids and their parents. That might sound trivial, but it was actually a big reason as to why I decided to go back at all.

2. In my private studio, I only travel to my students' houses. I don't have the means right now to have students come to me. Working in the school one day a week is one day I don't have to drive around all day. I do (much) prefer teaching privately, but that makes it a fair trade off.

-----

Like I said, my private studio is ALMOST full, not completely full, and being able to work through a school one day a week and have them find me the students gives me a slight break from looking for new students/posting fliers/advertising.

Also, I barely have any slots open in my private studio right now. I haven't had too much trouble finding students, luckily, and if I was using the music school solely to poach students to fill up my own studio, I would have nowhere to put them.

Since I've been back, I've had 4 people approach me about teaching privately. One of them asked me back in June. I gave her my number, and I still haven't heard from her. Another one also approached me at the end of last school year, we had a brief discussion about it, but it looks like that student signed up at the school for the fall anyway. Another told me she wouldn't be able to continue on the day I'm there but didn't want any other teacher so wouldn't return to the school anyway, so I may begin teaching her privately if I can fit her in. The last one asked me last week, which prompted me to start this thread.

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#2138579 - 08/25/13 12:43 AM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: catpiano]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1382
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Hi Cat,

Then God's Speed and very good luck to you.

Go read your contract with the school and see what it says. Myself, I would choose a suitable time frame based on your employment contract, and ask those students to contact you for lessons after they'd been away from the school for that specific period of time.

Don't take the barking dogs (les chiens qui aboient) seriously here.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2138581 - 08/25/13 12:51 AM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: catpiano]
catpiano Offline
Full Member

Registered: 12/20/12
Posts: 55
Thank you for all your responses. I know this is a complicated matter, especially since the lines are blurred between what is legal and what is ethical. I didn't want to make the impression that I'm using the school to fill up the holes in my private studio. As I mentioned in my previous post that is not the case. I guess when students started coming to me, my first thought was, well if they're not going to stay at the school anyway, then why not? But many of your responses have given me more perspective on that matter.

By the way, I somewhat regret my decision to return to the school, and it is likely that I will end up leaving for good in the near future, but that is probably a whole other topic!

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#2138702 - 08/25/13 10:19 AM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: catpiano]
Peter K. Mose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 1382
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
Originally Posted By: catpiano
By the way, I somewhat regret my decision to return to the school, and it is likely that I will end up leaving for good in the near future, but that is probably a whole other topic!


It's quite the same topic. You teach there; you quit; you teach there again; you quit. This sounds more like dating than teaching.

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#2138704 - 08/25/13 10:32 AM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: AZNpiano]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4535
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: AZNpiano
Originally Posted By: keystring
Reading this thread and others like it, my impression is that I would never want to take lessons in a music center or 'school' of this kind (with such policies). That is because I don't consider myself or my children to be property to be owned. I also want to exercise my freedom to study with whatever teacher will best help my growth in music. Anything that deliberately prevents me from doing so is the true "unethical" thing.

A truly enlightened post! Unfortunately, most parents just want to be able to drop off their kids for an hour while they go grocery shopping in the same plaza. Convenience trumps everything.


And why our society is so freakin' dumb.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2138713 - 08/25/13 10:42 AM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: Peter K. Mose]
Pogorelich. Offline
4000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/28/08
Posts: 4535
Loc: in the past
Originally Posted By: Peter K. Mose
Originally Posted By: catpiano
By the way, I somewhat regret my decision to return to the school, and it is likely that I will end up leaving for good in the near future, but that is probably a whole other topic!


It's quite the same topic. You teach there; you quit; you teach there again; you quit. This sounds more like dating than teaching.


Well, you can't blame her too much. Sometimes it just sucks. There are so many of these "schools" everywhere and 90% of them are terrible, designed to solely suck money out of the parents. I've taught at countless awful schools like that... at one of them, the owner literally told me "just do whatever you can to fill the 30 minutes, I don't care. Anything." like they didn't give a crap about what happens in that studio. And they usually underpay their teachers - which I understand is normal due to the circumstances.
_________________________

'I want to invest my emotions only in music; it will never disappoint me or hurt me - it is a safe place to be.'

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#2138722 - 08/25/13 11:12 AM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: Peter K. Mose]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11843
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Peter K. Mose
Originally Posted By: catpiano
By the way, I somewhat regret my decision to return to the school, and it is likely that I will end up leaving for good in the near future, but that is probably a whole other topic!


It's quite the same topic. You teach there; you quit; you teach there again; you quit. This sounds more like dating than teaching.

As I understand it, catpiano has been teaching for all of these years. There is an almost full studio, and students asking to join that studio, so something must be going right. To me that looks like consistent, continual teaching, and it suggests thatteaching is happening - nothing close to a dating scenario in regards to his/her teaching.

As an entrepreneur I have customers who come directly to me (studio scenario) and I also work with agencies (music center scenario). As I gained experience, I outgrew some of these companies. I might return with fond memories, but the efficiency or whatever was not there. You have to make business decisions, and sometimes you can only reach them by trying things and seeing how they go. The OP has only gone back once, and seems very circumspect about everything.

Business relationships are not like dating, and they are also not like a marriage. This is especially so when you are not in an employment relationship but something in-between. Subcontracting, or being independent but not, it's a nebulous world, which is why such questions come up.

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#2138912 - 08/25/13 05:49 PM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: catpiano]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13817
Loc: Iowa City, IA
It's not complicated at all. Just follow the agreement you signed with the school. It's a rather simple business matter.

It only gets complicated when there's no agreement or when either party doesn't understand the ramifications.

If there was no agreement, then you can do whatever you want.

If there was but you believe there's a misunderstanding, then have an attorney look at it.

Originally Posted By: catpiano
Thank you for all your responses. I know this is a complicated matter, especially since the lines are blurred between what is legal and what is ethical.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#2139141 - 08/26/13 10:32 AM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: catpiano]
Peter K. Mose Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/06/12
Posts: 1382
Loc: Toronto, Ontario
The complicated issues here are ethical, as catpiano herself has observed. I think she understands all this better than we give her credit for. Namely, what should be her sense of obligation and good conduct: toward the music school directors, toward potential students and their parents, toward her present students and their parents, toward herself and her career?

Teaching at more than one location in the same community, and with more than one employer, is for some of us just not worth the hazards and ethical dilemmas.

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#2139166 - 08/26/13 11:23 AM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: catpiano]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11843
Loc: Canada
Re:
Originally Posted By: Peter K. Mose
...and with more than one employer...
The definition of "employer" is something that I have learned to be careful of due to my own freelance work. The following is a question, and not meant to be rhetorical:

When a teacher teaches at a center, "school" etc., is this an employment relationship or a subcontract or similar relationship? Does it vary?

When you are employed, you tend to have a steady salary which you get regardless of how busy the company is. The company pays for standard benefits such as a portion of your pension plan, sick leave, and similar. Policies tend to be unilateral, dictated by the company, though there may be some negotiation at the point of hiring.

In subcontracting and similar, you are more like independent parties. The agency or center or school promises a service to customers and you deliver that service. In a sense, the center etc. is your customer, and the student is your customer's customer. When you have lots of end customers, you earn more money, and if there are few, you earn less money. Pension plan, sick leave, etc. are not paid, and you do not get a steady salary.

Hypothetically, if the center, "school", agency etc. are your customers, then as a self-employed person you are free to have more than one customer. But you have to make sure that everyone is served fully and properly. With an employer, since he invests more in you and gives you the above security, you may be forbidden to "moonlight".

When you run your own business, then it is easier to balance professional considerations and business considerations. The professional side involves the actual service that you provide. You may want to create a reputation for quality and bring out a good product (in teaching - a well-taught student). You may have to compromise for business reasons, but you understand your work and you know how to compromise. If you are working for a business, they may compromise in the wrong areas due to a lack of understanding of your profession, or lack of interest in things such as quality. Here it depends on who you are working for.

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#2139170 - 08/26/13 11:33 AM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: catpiano]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3196
Loc: Maine
catpiano, would it be possible for you to ask the school what their policies are on this?

It is interesting to me that it is only now, when you are back at the school and visible to your former students, that they are asking to study privately if they can't find a spot with you at the school. I wonder why they didn't try to follow you to your private studio a year ago when you first left. I'm making no implications here; I just find it curious.
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

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#2139295 - 08/26/13 03:59 PM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: keystring]
Kreisler Offline


Registered: 11/27/02
Posts: 13817
Loc: Iowa City, IA
Originally Posted By: keystring
When a teacher teaches at a center, "school" etc., is this an employment relationship or a subcontract or similar relationship? Does it vary?


It varies.

In an employer/employee relationship, the employer can tell the employee what to do and how to do it. The employer pays payroll taxes and withholds taxes from your paycheck. You could be paid a salary or an hourly wage and receive a W-2.

As a subcontractor, the business can tell you what to do but not how to do it. You're basically hired to achieve a result and left to your own devices to achieve it. Again, you could be paid in a variety of ways, but no taxes are withheld or paid by the employer. You receive a 1099.

Unfortunately, many schools hire teachers as subcontractors (because it's cheaper) but treat them like employees (because they being in control.) This doesn't just happen in music, and subcontracting is often abused here in the US.
_________________________
"If we continually try to force a child to do what he is afraid to do, he will become more timid, and will use his brains and energy, not to explore the unknown, but to find ways to avoid the pressures we put on him." (John Holt)

www.pianoped.com
www.youtube.com/user/UIPianoPed

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#2139297 - 08/26/13 04:11 PM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: Kreisler]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11843
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: Kreisler
Originally Posted By: keystring
When a teacher teaches at a center, "school" etc., is this an employment relationship or a subcontract or similar relationship? Does it vary?


As a subcontractor, the business can tell you what to do but not how to do it. You're basically hired to achieve a result and left to your own devices to achieve it. Again, you could be paid in a variety of ways, but no taxes are withheld or paid by the employer. You receive a 1099.

Unfortunately, many schools hire teachers as subcontractors (because it's cheaper) but treat them like employees (because they being in control.) This doesn't just happen in music, and subcontracting is often abused here in the US.

That is the same experience in my main line of business. It is important for people coming into these situations to be informed, because we are so used to employer-employee relationships that we can accept things that we shouldn't. The people taking on the role of "employer" may also be misinformed.

In regards to the business telling you what to do - this is also something that must be discussed until everyone is satisfied, rather than assuming things (too often done). Unfortunately "telling you how to do it" (and messing up with the professional's judgment) will also be done. The problem is not just in the U.S. My field is international, and it's happening everywhere.

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#2139299 - 08/26/13 04:12 PM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: catpiano]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3196
Loc: Maine
I have been trying to think of similar scenarios in other businesses.

A long time ago, I had a hairdresser who changed salons, and I followed her to the new salon. I was young, so my mother handled the ins and outs of finding out where she went: I don't know where the information came from, her or her old salon.

On the other hand, we recently worked with a consultant who was an employee of one of our software vendors. He quit to become an independent consultant in the same business. We would have liked to continue working with him. But his employment agreement with the vendor had included stiff non-compete clauses for if he left them, such as not working with former clients of his that he had from the company for X amount of time, so he declined to work with us after he became an independent consultant. It really wasn't an option for us to have declined to work with any of the company's employed consultants on the basis that the non-compete clause would prevent us from following the consultant if he left and set up independent shop.

To me, words such as stealing, embezzling, and pilfering beg the question (in the strict technical sense: assuming the conclusion) as to what the ethical or legal thing to do here is.

It seems to me that a prudent music school should have a clear policy on this. This is just from a business point of view, apart from what the students or teachers might want the policy to be. The policy doesn't have to be restrictive -- it could be "sure, move students to your private studio". (Or it could be more restrictive.) But it seems to me that a thoughtful music school should have thought about this, and have agreements in place with its teachers.

Whether or not it's an employee or a contractor relationship, it seems to me it would make sense, as a business, for a music school to have a policy in place.


Edited by PianoStudent88 (08/26/13 05:09 PM)
Edit Reason: a small clarification
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

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#2143106 - 09/02/13 09:38 PM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: catpiano]
nyke Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/17/13
Posts: 49
I read all of the post on here and everyone has very good points that they have made. Since this post took a turn and was directed more towards the music school owner and gave a lot of negative post towards them I felt the need to comment. Speaking as a music school owner I want to use the analogy of beginner music instructors who use method books. These books work great for them to help get a student started studying an instrument and introducing terminology to them and training the music instructor as well. Some of the method books take a student on and on so that you can just continue to purchase the different levels of the method book however the student is capable after learning "c" position to progress and read beyond that. However, if the average parent or teacher is unaware of that then the option will not be presented to the student.
My reason for saying all of that is because music schools tend to get a bad rap but there are NUMEROUS benefits to a student coming to a music school well beyond convenient parking. Benefits of attending a music school: is students can study multiple instruments, family members can attend all at one time, flexible lesson options, professional space completely dedicated to music lessons, students can participate in competitions, if it's a quality school they will hire quality music instructors and that will be a guarantee for the students, teachers can take vacation time off, no need to deal with parents and policy issues etc. I can go on and on. I think the same as another poster stated earlier check out a music school just as well as you would check out a private teacher.
To the OP a director of the school should understand that there will be more students so to lose a few to a popular teacher that is clearly not trying to coerce students to leave the school -I think the director should be reasonable and let the students go.
Everything can be handled with decency and order....just my two-cents!
_________________________
Nyshia Cook
Blog Writer at http://musicacademyadvantage.com/
-A Business Resource for music teachers!
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#2143113 - 09/02/13 09:43 PM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: catpiano]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3196
Loc: Maine
nyke, it is interesting to hear the music school owner's perspective. As a music school owner do you have a policy for students following a teacher to the teacher's private studio, whether when the teacher leaves, or in this case when there isn't enough room in the teacher's schedule at the music school? Do your teachers understand this policy? Do the students and their parents understand this policy?
_________________________
Ebaug(maj7)

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#2143126 - 09/02/13 10:05 PM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: PianoStudent88]
nyke Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/17/13
Posts: 49
Hi I actually haven't experienced this sort of thing. However, two issues that I have had to deal with is an instructor who purposely came to work at my studio to try and steal students. Once she decided to leave she attempted to steal all of the students she could by offering a cheaper rate (only 2 left. The other students stayed because they felt that was unethical and on top of all of that...the teacher didn't tell me she was quitting.
2nd issue that I have dealt with is not being able to get enough students for a particular teacher's instrument so when the instructor wanted to leave and felt they could continue to teach on their own I allowed them to keep the students. There was no need for me to try and keep the students at my studio. I've realized that there are some students who build relationships with teachers, some who could care less they are just passing through, and others who it makes a difference if they are at a school or at a private teacher's studio. There is enough to go around so that you won't have to STEAL students or try HUDDLE students at your school to make a profit. I hope this helps.
FYI: If I was the owner of the school for OP I would allow her to teach the students in her studio.
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#2143128 - 09/02/13 10:05 PM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: nyke]
keystring Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/07
Posts: 11843
Loc: Canada
Originally Posted By: nyke

To the OP a director of the school should understand that there will be more students so to lose a few to a popular teacher that is clearly not trying to coerce students to leave the school -I think the director should be reasonable and let the students go.
Everything can be handled with decency and order....just my two-cents!

This part is worth isolating.

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#2143130 - 09/02/13 10:08 PM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: catpiano]
nyke Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/17/13
Posts: 49
Also when I was younger and taking music lessons from a teacher that worked for a music store, she had the same exact problem as the OP. The store allowed her to teach referrals in her home. I'm unsure if she paid the store any additional fees, because I paid her directly. But if i'm not mistaken she paid the store an additional fee.
Some teachers really appreciate all that a music store/school does for them and really doesn't want to ruin that for the benefit of continuing the relationship, Other teachers may not need that relationship.
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#2143131 - 09/02/13 10:09 PM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: catpiano]
nyke Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/17/13
Posts: 49
Also when I was younger and taking music lessons from a teacher that worked for a music store, she had the same exact problem as the OP. The store allowed her to teach referrals in her home. I'm unsure if she paid the store any additional fees, because I paid her directly. But if i'm not mistaken she paid the store an additional fee.
Some teachers really appreciate all that a music store/school does for them and really doesn't want to ruin that for the benefit of continuing the relationship, Other teachers may not need that relationship.
_________________________
Nyshia Cook
Blog Writer at http://musicacademyadvantage.com/
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#2143133 - 09/02/13 10:16 PM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: catpiano]
PianoStudent88 Online   content
3000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/16/11
Posts: 3196
Loc: Maine
nyke, thank you for elaborating. Despite your generally unrestrictive stance towards students following teachers, there is something in the actions of the first teacher you cite that it seems to me you find unethical. (Reading into what you wrote, since you used the term "steal," and said the students thought her behaviour unethical.) I wonder if there is any way to articulate what those circumstances are, where you would not want a teacher to be trying to take students to their private studio. Does it make any business sense to you to formulate a policy on this, or do you prefer to handle it as cases arise?
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#2143145 - 09/02/13 10:35 PM Re: Question about "stealing" students [Re: PianoStudent88]
nyke Offline
Full Member

Registered: 08/17/13
Posts: 49
It is written in my policy that teachers should not coerce students to leave the studio and study privately with them. However, I do make adjustments to that for specific cases for instance the teacher that I couldn't find enough students to study that particular instrument.
The other teacher I was speaking of specifically sought me out to try and steal students from my studio. That's not hard to do because I get a lot of publicity and press for my studio and the students get to take advantage of some pretty cool opportunities as well as they all score high in annual music festivals and we put on the best recitals!
So this specific teacher sought me out and pretended to want a job at my studio-
After a 8-9 months of teaching- The incident went like this: Monday morning when I came into the studio, tons of parents were calling saying...oh Miss X won't be teaching here anymore?
Me: I'm not sure what you are talking about...I wasn't aware of any problems
Parents: O well she called me and said she won't be teaching here anymore and if we wanted to study with her she'd give a cheaper rate.
To me that is what I call unethical because you are deliberately trying to pull a leg out from under someone else's business. I am more than supportive of anyone wanting to start their own thing but do just that-start your OWN thing don't try and steal from a competitor or for that matter someone who has helped you get started.
I hope that is more explanatory. ;-)
_________________________
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