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#2140467 - 08/28/13 11:01 PM Re: Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein [Re: custard apple]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1601
Loc: Toronto
I'm glad when I work with generous and friendly people as well. I'm not trying to promote an attitude of cold anti social behavior. Its just that with the level of entitlement i see these days with individuals it's no wonder some businesses need to do things like charge a fee for what might be perceived as basic 'courtesy' services. I think some people have the attitude that if they give their business to a company, the company should bend over backwards in gratitude. I just try not to take that sort of stuff for granted. If you buy a Bechstein, you're getting an awesome piano. If you're indignant because some customer care person doesn't want to look up your serial number for you, I say quit your whinin' and be happy that you've got a piano that most people could only dream of having--instead of slagging the company on an internet forum.

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#2140483 - 08/29/13 12:06 AM Re: Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein [Re: custard apple]
OperaTenor Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/13/06
Posts: 2379
Loc: Sandy Eggo, California
I will post on this thread upon payment of my $30 posting fee.
_________________________
Happiness is a freshly tuned piano.
Jim Boydston, proprietor, No Piano Left Behind - technician
[url=www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind]www.facebook.com/NoPianoLeftBehind[/url]

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#2140503 - 08/29/13 01:06 AM Re: Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein [Re: OperaTenor]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1601
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: OperaTenor
I will post on this thread upon payment of my $30 posting fee.



Lol. Nice:)

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#2140576 - 08/29/13 07:47 AM Re: Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein [Re: custard apple]
Jolly Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 06/20/01
Posts: 14048
Loc: Louisiana
Originally Posted By: custard apple
Thanks to everyone who has made interesting and informed comments on this thread.

I emailed the thread to Ms Blees of Bechstein HQ Berlin who then replied, without charging 26 Euros, informing me my piano was built in 2011 and the country of origin is Germany.

This is a good example of the power of the Piano Forum.

@ Ando: The piano is A175.


Yes, I would say this thread was rapidly generating more than 26 euro of bad publicity.
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Over 1,000,000 posts where pianists discuss everything. And nothing.

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#2140584 - 08/29/13 08:20 AM Re: Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein [Re: Jolly]
custard apple Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 12/11/09
Posts: 2295
Loc: Sydney
Originally Posted By: Jolly
Originally Posted By: custard apple
Thanks to everyone who has made interesting and informed comments on this thread.

I emailed the thread to Ms Blees of Bechstein HQ Berlin who then replied, without charging 26 Euros, informing me my piano was built in 2011 and the country of origin is Germany.

This is a good example of the power of the Piano Forum.

@ Ando: The piano is A175.


Yes, I would say this thread was rapidly generating more than 26 euro of bad publicity.


hahaha !
Well summarized !

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#2140611 - 08/29/13 09:34 AM Re: Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein [Re: pianoloverus]
Frankni Offline
Full Member

Registered: 02/12/13
Posts: 147
Loc: UK
Originally Posted By: pianoloverus
Originally Posted By: Norbert
Stuff like this should go without saying.

Is it any wonder that companies that operate like this have [often] full order books and are doing very well?

It shows a different kind of commitment by smaller makers: bigger ones are often busy hashing things out in boardrooms, are travelling or what have you.
*:
Try Estonia and few others, it's exactly same...

[No, am not *hyping*...]

Norbert smile
Of course you are.

You need to review the definition of "hyping" that I've explained(quoted from the dictionary)to you several times. You seem to think hyping only means exaggerating the truth.

Here's the first listed definition from the first definition given when googling "hype":
1. Excessive publicity and the ensuing commotion

So unless you think your literally many thousands of posts about the brands you sell don't qualify as "excessive"....

Here's the first listed definition that comes up when googling "hype definition":
1. Extravagant or intensive publicity or promotion.

In addition, you continually ignore that if a compamy only produces a few hundred pianos each year, it's not some miracle that they can sell them all. Pointed out to you a few times also.




First, personally speaking I don't mind a bit of hype, if it is informative and well-deserved. Presumably, the bigger piano brands don't need the additional hyping because they have entire PR departments working on full throttle all the time doing the professional hyping for them.
In the case of smaller brands, they have fewer resources to spend on the hyping, and, one may add, those scarcer resources are apparently directed to making a better product (that speaks for itself) rather than spending funds on publicity.

In fact, on this forum (which seems partly designed for the business of hyping and de-hyping -- where necessary) I have found through the hype lots of useful and interesting information on piano brands whose existence I was scarcely aware of.

Second, those companies who only make a hundred (grand) pianos a year wouldn't sell them at all (not even in their teens) if the product was not worth it. A point worth making as well. Given that these brands are often so unknown in some parts of the world, such that even a willing and open-minded customer has zero chance of encountering such a piano alive and breathing in a showroom, makes it indeed a miracle that even a single specimen would be sold in those parts of the world. In my own case it was a matter of the coincidence of past happy memories, innate stubbornness and a foreign pedigree that made me pursue, against all odds almost, the acquisition of such an instrument.


Edited by Frankni (08/29/13 09:35 AM)
_________________________
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#2140634 - 08/29/13 10:28 AM Re: Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein [Re: custard apple]
Rank Piano Amateur Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 08/11/07
Posts: 1752
I do not understand this thread, I have to say. If all that the OP wanted to know was what year the piano was made and where (2011 and Germany), I find it hard to imagine that the dealer could not have supplied this very basic pair of facts. And if this is it, why all the fuss? Moreover, the OP could have retrieved the Germany part on his or her own: if all Bechsteins of that model are made in Germany, it would be safe to assume that the one that the OP bought was as well. And the serial number would help with the year. . . .

It seems like a real tempest in a teapot, after all these various fulminations on this thread!

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#2140653 - 08/29/13 11:20 AM Re: Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein [Re: Rank Piano Amateur]
Mark Polishook Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 629
Loc: Leicester, UK
Originally Posted By: Rank Piano Amateur
I do not understand this thread ...

It seems like a real tempest in a teapot ...


I'm with you on this.

Something that's gone on in this thread almost entirely without comment is the piano manufacturer decided - it was their decision completely - that discussion here warranted action.

Meaning: The collective voice of the forum was heard by a major piano manufacturer. That manufacturer decided an exception to stated policy was appropriate. Whether or not that leads to further policy change remains to be see. Who knows?

The OP deserves credit - and, really, our thanks, for demonstrating that

• policy isn't written in permanent ink.
• businesses aren't stone monoliths and can decide to respond to new requests
• the social media to which we contribute has influence.
• there's nothing wrong with asking

Those of us who have contributed to this thread as posters and readers have all of us helped the OP to a stated goal: Customer-facing service from a huge piano brand.

And the OP graciously noted that that Bechstein had a change of heart as they did send information as requested.

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#2140684 - 08/29/13 11:59 AM Re: Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein [Re: Mark Polishook]
CC2 and Chopin lover Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 1981
It is obvious that there are two clear schools of thought on this topic of what a piano manufacturer owes the consumer....or doesn't. This obviously could be debated all day and there would be no resolution in the end. My take is simple. I just consider the fact that, with every purchase of a Shigeru Kawai, the "mother ship", as Jurgen called it, sends a highly trained technician from Japan to the purchaser's home, (anywhere on the planet), to spend a day optimizing that instrument in its new environment!!!! Obviously, they feel that this burnishes their reputation and image and sets them apart from the others. I bet you could even ask him or her when and where the piano was made and get a smile and an answer for free!!!
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Piano Technician/Tuner

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#2140715 - 08/29/13 12:25 PM Re: Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein [Re: custard apple]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14117
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
Quote:
I bet you could even ask him or her when and where the piano was made and get a smile and an answer for free!!!


Perhaps aso because it's a more clear cut case here?

Norbert tired
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2140730 - 08/29/13 12:58 PM Re: Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein [Re: CC2 and Chopin lover]
Steve Chandler Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/18/05
Posts: 2698
Loc: Urbandale, Iowa
Originally Posted By: CC2 and Chopin lover
I just consider the fact that, with every purchase of a Shigeru Kawai, the "mother ship", as Jurgen called it, sends a highly trained technician from Japan to the purchaser's home, (anywhere on the planet), to spend a day optimizing that instrument in its new environment!!!!

I believe this information is incorrect. I believe the MPA visit applies only to Shigeru purchases made in the USA (and maybe Canadia).

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#2140733 - 08/29/13 01:02 PM Re: Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein [Re: custard apple]
CC2 and Chopin lover Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 1981
Quote:
I believe this information is incorrect. I believe the MPA visit applies only to Shigeru purchases made in the USA (and maybe Canadia)


Whatever the case, surely you get my point?
_________________________
Piano Technician/Tuner

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#2140738 - 08/29/13 01:07 PM Re: Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein [Re: AJF]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1197
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Originally Posted By: AJF


Difficult to believe what I'm reading here.
Having lived and worked in France for more years than I care to remember, and also having widely traveled within France, I can honestly say I have never, ever seen a store with a Tarif d'entrée sign outside or inside.


I think sometimes people visit a place once or twice and then decide they've got the whole culture and its people figured out based on minimal experience. What's that called again? Oh yeah--stereotyping (although they would never use that word. They use the word "culture" instead)


I lived in the 14th arrondissement for several years, went to school and worked in the city, and speak, read and write French very well according to my French friends with whom I still correspond, thank you very much!

You can stick that back up your collective noses.
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2140889 - 08/29/13 06:03 PM Re: Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein [Re: custard apple]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1601
Loc: Toronto
Seems like the French really rubbed off on ya Greg :-P

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#2140890 - 08/29/13 06:05 PM Re: Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein [Re: CC2 and Chopin lover]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1601
Loc: Toronto
Originally Posted By: CC2 and Chopin lover
It is obvious that there are two clear schools of thought on this topic of what a piano manufacturer owes the consumer....or doesn't. This obviously could be debated all day and there would be no resolution in the end. My take is simple. I just consider the fact that, with every purchase of a Shigeru Kawai, the "mother ship", as Jurgen called it, sends a highly trained technician from Japan to the purchaser's home, (anywhere on the planet), to spend a day optimizing that instrument in its new environment!!!! Obviously, they feel that this burnishes their reputation and image and sets them apart from the others. I bet you could even ask him or her when and where the piano was made and get a smile and an answer for free!!!



Yes, but make no mistake, the MPA visit is part of the price you pay for a Shigeru. Kawai doesn't send a tech half way around the world out of the goodness of their hearts...

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#2140901 - 08/29/13 06:39 PM Re: Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein [Re: AJF]
laguna_greg Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/02/13
Posts: 1197
Loc: guess where in CA and WA
Originally Posted By: AJF

Seems like the French really rubbed off on ya Greg :-P


Vive la France, et la difference!
_________________________
Laguna Greg

1919 Mason & Hamlin AA
1931 Bechstein C - now sold
http://www.triangleassociates-us.com/about_us (my day job)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dorothy_Taubman (a recent article I wrote about one of my teachers)

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#2140932 - 08/29/13 07:49 PM Re: Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein [Re: AJF]
CC2 and Chopin lover Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 01/12/06
Posts: 1981
So, in other words, Kawai can build the cost of the MPA into their price, but Bechstein can't build $26.00 for piano information into theirs?
_________________________
Piano Technician/Tuner

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#2140953 - 08/29/13 08:41 PM Re: Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein [Re: custard apple]
AJF Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 05/18/06
Posts: 1601
Loc: Toronto
I guess that's one way of looking at it.

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#2140959 - 08/29/13 08:49 PM Re: Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein [Re: custard apple]
Norbert Offline
Yikes! 10000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/03/01
Posts: 14117
Loc: Surrey, B.C.
We often forget that we live at times where customers service is getting less and less - everywhere.

And those who "do" still give service have service staff often sounding like machines.

Small Mam and Pap shops still do things the old way, but are getting less and less in numbers also.

Of course there will always be always a few "grand-ma" and "grand-pap" shops left to do the job....

So, next time you buy a piano always ask for the guy's *grandchildren* first - you may be in safe hands~!

Norbert grin
_________________________
www.heritagepianos.com
Greater Vancouver B.C. piano dealers for : C.Sauter, Estonia, Brodmann, Ritmuller
604-951-8642

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#2141030 - 08/29/13 11:35 PM Re: Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein [Re: Steve Chandler]
schwammerl Offline
2000 Post Club Member

Registered: 04/16/06
Posts: 2012
Loc: Belgium
Originally Posted By: Steve Chandler
Originally Posted By: CC2 and Chopin lover
I just consider the fact that, with every purchase of a Shigeru Kawai, the "mother ship", as Jurgen called it, sends a highly trained technician from Japan to the purchaser's home, (anywhere on the planet), to spend a day optimizing that instrument in its new environment!!!!

I believe this information is incorrect. I believe the MPA visit applies only to Shigeru purchases made in the USA (and maybe Canadia).


This was indeed the case untill even last year but now since the introduction of the Shigeru Kawai Concert Series they now also offer the MPA service in Europe and built a new website:

Shigeru Kawai Europe

schwammerl.

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#2141193 - 08/30/13 05:31 AM Re: Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein [Re: custard apple]
Mark R. Offline
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/31/09
Posts: 1937
Loc: Pretoria, South Africa
Originally Posted By: custard apple
Originally Posted By: Jolly
Originally Posted By: custard apple
Thanks to everyone who has made interesting and informed comments on this thread.

I emailed the thread to Ms Blees of Bechstein HQ Berlin who then replied, without charging 26 Euros, informing me my piano was built in 2011 and the country of origin is Germany.

This is a good example of the power of the Piano Forum.

@ Ando: The piano is A175.


Yes, I would say this thread was rapidly generating more than 26 euro of bad publicity.


hahaha !
Well summarized !


As BDB pointed out, Bechstein have their policy clearly displayed on their website. Take it or leave it.

This thread has indeed generated bad publicity, but not for Bechstein. From my perspective, Bechstein's image hasn't been tarnished in the least. My impression of the O.P. is another matter altogether (spending a fortune on a piano, and then creating a hoo-hah on an internet forum, to save a few bucks and crow about it after the "feat")... pfui.

[Edit: besides that of the O.P., the reputation of Piano World might be seen at stake, but I leave that to Frank and his team.]


Edited by Mark R. (08/30/13 05:39 AM)
Edit Reason: given in post.
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1922 49" Zimmermann, project piano.
1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker.

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#2141262 - 08/30/13 09:16 AM Re: Disappointing post-sales customer service from Bechstein [Re: custard apple]
Rickster Online   content


Registered: 03/25/06
Posts: 8414
Loc: Georgia, USA
I honestly do not think this thread was bad publicity for anyone; besides, who was it that said “any publicity is good publicity” (PT Barnum?)

However, I think this thread has finished its course… for better or worse. Most folks with an opinion on this matter have chimed in already.

I don't think they (Bechstein) have done anything which would warrant having to defending themselves; however, I'm sure customer service is important to them.

If a representative for Bechstein would like to chime in and make a statement regarding their policy on this issue, which has not occurred to my knowledge, I’ll re-open the thread for that purpose.

Rickster
_________________________
Piano enthusiast and amateur musician: "Treat others the way you would like to be treated". Yamaha C7. YouTube Channel

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