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Joined: Mar 2005
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Good news on replacing the action of this 7ft 1928 Steinway AR-A3 scale..WN&G has been able to replace the action with their carbon fiber equivalent. We were not sure it was possible, but they made their action to fit just about any grand piano...also will be using their cf shanks.
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It will be interesting to find out if those choices prove to be superior to what may have been expected from all wooden parts. I think there is a good chance that they will be. The primary reason is the player system, of course which tends to drive the piano action consistently harder than nearly any human player would.
You can expect that the parts will retain their alignment and rarely, if ever need the flange screws tightened. If the hammers start to drift to the left as they often do, it will be because the action stop block material has compressed. All that will be necessary to realign the hammers will be to shim the block, not move any hammer flanges.
While Kawai has gone to nearly all carbon fiber parts, they have stated reasons for retaining wooden hammer shanks. The carbon fiber people claim that their shanks have the properties of the very best hammer shanks and have 100% consistency. So, we will have to see and hear if they make a difference in tone and the consistency of tone. My expectation is that all will be found to be superior.
It would be my guess too that Randy finds the parts far more easy to regulate than conventional parts. It will not preclude the need for maintenance regulation because the soft materials will compress the same as they do with conventional parts but because those parts can be precisely aligned and retain that alignment far better, there will be less frequent need for maintenance regulation and it will be easier to do.
I see it as the future in piano construction. It is only the public that has to be convinced of the value. A Steinway with plastic parts? Oh my! It is coming, sooner or later.
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A Steinway with all cf?....we better run to the front door! I hope you are right Bill...everything I've read points to CF being superior to wood, and as you say, the Duo-Art system will play the heck out it.....We will certainly be able to tell about tone...with Ari's excellent hammers, all relatively new strings, nicely installed, and a wonderful sounding Steinway 7ft A-A3 scale with the player system, we will have a myriad of music to listen to. I plan to do lot's of recordings, and will post some here. Will have you out there to tune EBVT III at some point after it's here.
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gut feeling is that too much power restitued , may be due to the absence of cloth bushing, and a little because of the type of resiliency of the shanks ( I heard a less stiff shank is now available, may be some asked for it)
pianists seem to like feeling the limit of action complience, but only when the hammer resiliency is high and saturation is allowed.
There is also a typical warm and open toner with soft shanks (light and flexible)
No idea if this is allowing a different tone control, but the present Steinway A3 I am working on have very supple shanks and it is the cause of a specific warm tone that the pianist appreciate low mediums and basses particularly do well with the very soft hammers and the supple shanks.
Now all will be replaced with new wooden shanks (thinned) light but pressed hammers (so we will have a very dense and resilient part of felt under the crown, the source for a thick tone and a rich FFF without the pronounced impact tone of soft hammers.
shanks being selected by hardness/density and resonance tone, some evenness is obtained in the end. I dont deny the WNG shanks provide an even impact tone in a given section; I just wonder if they are not just too much resilient, reacting faster than wood to deformation.
the shank and the hammer are a couple, their resiliency must match I think
Last edited by Olek; 07/05/15 07:50 AM.
Professional of the profession. Foo Foo specialist I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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Isaac, I know that Ari's hammers are very resilient, and have a lot bounce off the strings, which is one of the attributes he goes for. We'll see if this match of CF parts and his hammers make for some good sounds.
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All this time, I thought that Europeans liked a very bright tone, Isaac, at one time harshly criticized the warm and soft tone of the pianos that a Madison, Wisconsin colleague of mine had on his website. Now, he seems to have reversed his thinking entirely.
GP, I told my apprentice, Lucas Brookins about your project and that I hoped to invite him along. He can both do some tuning and performing. You would get some fabulous videos of him! He should be an RPT in about 10 days from now and from what he has shown so far, get scores on his Technician Exam that match his extraordinary scores on his Tuning Exam. He would be able to learn from Randy a lot about player systems on both of your pianos.
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Bill I would not say bright tone, but when you went to Europe it was indeed more in the trend than today
The main point is a large dynamic palette with FFF just under tone saturation, and tone saturation available, but all this without a too present "toc toc toc" , noise of hammer and shanks impact.
I think tone volume should be enough to have the impact tone melted in the tone, discrete, soft hammers tend to be noisy with a too slow rebound at fff.
We tend to prefer warmer tones in Europe, Yamaha, Samick did begin soon to use Wurzen felt on their European models for that reason:
A tone can be warm and brillant at the same time, if sustained enough. Harsh brillancy is what put the steel iH really at the front of tone power, or tone thickness, make it more manageable.
soft hammers can finally get power when played enough, but this may take 10 years or so, without lacquer.
power is the amount of tinkling the finger perceive at impact time. Tone can be nice but missing that fundation, then at FFf the impact is too present (limited dynamic plague)
That said it is not that easy to raise the power just the amount the hammer can give and what the instrument accept
the bounce is usually at its strongest when playing FFF, max elasticity in FFF play; that is the goal; but strangedly this is yet perceived in very soft playing, (the underlying power is perceived)
Regards
Last edited by Olek; 07/06/15 05:02 AM.
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Isaac,
What do you mean by "plague"? You often use this term, and I suspect that it's an erroneous translation. Plague means pestilence!
Do you mean "range"?
Autodidact interested in piano technology. 1970 44" Ibach, daily music maker. 1977 "Ortega" 8' + 8' harpsichord (Rainer Schütze, Heidelberg)
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That is what I mean,
Exactly, "dynamic pestilence" "or "dynamic beach" , I am a professional, by goddess sake!
A dynamic range may be more suited probably ..
Sorry and thanks!
Professional of the profession. Foo Foo specialist I wish to add some kind and sensitive phrase but nothing comes to mind.!
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Great Bill, Thanks....sounds like a plan! Will let you know when it looks like the piano is going to be making it's way up here.
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