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As my practice time has become longer in recent weeks, I've developed very bad tennis elbow in both arms. I'm convinced it's from piano playing since I do nothing else particularly repetitive, and nothing that would affect both elbows at once. It doesn't actually hurt at all WHILE I'm playing, but the pain is there when doing pretty much anything else with my arms.

It's almost certainly related to posture and tension, but I've adjusted seat height and concentrated more on relaxing arms and shoulders with no relief. I'm wondering where to go next with trying to self-diagnose what I'm doing wrong.

Is there something specific that I might be or not be doing on the piano that is known for causing tennis elbow?

Tennis Elbow is usually caused by gripping, I developed Tennis Elbow when at sea, pulling and gripping on ropes. It's hard to see how playing the piano would cause Tennis Elbow, perhaps consulting a sports injury therapist would be a good idea.

Is this a condition that has actually been diagnosed as tennis elbow (i.e., have you seen a doctor about it?) There are different varieties of elbow pain, and you want to be sure you know what you're dealing with.

For people who really know about piano-related injuries, you may want to consult the Taubman technique folks at the Golandsky Institute.

Meanwhile, I am neither a doc nor a piano expert, and I'm sure there are many different incorrect movements that could contribute. I would look especially at the wrist to be sure you're not breaking the alignment with your forearm (but you may need an expert to help you tell which kinds of wrist flexibility are good and which not). You can certainly irritate the elbow with what Taubman calls "twisting" at the wrist, which is yawing to the side horizontally (sometimes referred to as ulnar deviation if it goes toward the elbow side). Other kinds of wrist breaks can also be bad, as can other things like excessive stretching of the hand, curling or flattening the fingers, pressing the keys after they're played, isolated finger movements, etc.

If it is piano then your arm/wrist position is likely to be wrong and your finger/arm movements. You need Mark Thomas' book or a piano teacher.

Teaser.

You use the same gripping muscle but more to the point the wrist is always trying to go up. The pulling it back down muscle is attached at the elbow. Try wearing an elastic support.

+1.

Could be tension in both the biceps and triceps simultaneously. That puts a load on the elbow joint, about the only way it could happen while playing....

I was certain I'd read somewhere that tennis elbow was a common injury for pianists. From the responses (which I appreciate) it appears this isn't the case. Perhaps this merits more investigation into the exact (and perhaps non-piano related) cause.

As with all piano injuries, it's important that you stop playing and allow the body to heal. Then seek the help needed to learn a better technique of playing that will allow you to do so without the pain. Pain happening after the fact and not during is very common, by the way. You may, however, experience fatigue, tingling, burning, or tightness during playing that later becomes pain when you're done playing. It all amounts to the same, which is to find out what you're doing that causes that and learn a better way to do it.

I highly recommend finding a teacher that can help you.

Hm...if I could see a video of you playing, with a full view of your head, shoulders, arms, and seating position on the bench, I might be able to see what might be causing your tennis elbow. I suffered from early stages of tendonitis when I was in my early 20s (last year studying at Curtis) and I had to completely undo my technique and learn a completely different (and relaxed) way to approach the piano.

In the meantime, one book that quite literally saved my playing career was "Stretching" by Bob Anderson.

http://www.amazon.com/Stretching-30...mp;keywords=stretching+book+bob+anderson

I highly recommend you take a look at all of the arm-related and upper body stretches. Hope this helps!

Yes, it is tennis elbow. 'Tennis elbow is usually caused by overusing the muscles attached to your elbow and used to straighten your wrist.' http://www.nhs.uk/Conditions/Tennis-elbow/Pages/Introduction.aspx

When you attempt to put a key down one of two things could happen - either the key goes down or your wrist goes up. The wrist straightening muscle (wrist extensor) makes sure the former occurs. That is certainly the case when doing finger work. When you 'drop' weight into the keyboard using arms it's a different matter but that can't be the default method as you wouldn't be able to play fast.

acollins, last year I had tennis elbow pain in my left arm, so I can share my experience (if it help):
The problem was that I play piano, I play tennis and I work with computers - the 3 main reasons to have elbow pain(!) -, so the doctor wasn't sure about what activity causes the pain.

Anyway, I followed the doctor prescription: I stopped playing tennis, and I reduced my piano practicing time. Working with computers is my job, so I couldn't avoid that.
Plus, I did 45 physiotherapy sessions (laser, ultra-sounds, massages, and specific arm work at a gymnasium) and at the end of 15 sessions I started to recover. I feel better now, but I'm not 100% cured. Sometimes I feel a light pain in my left arm, but I can deal with it.

I advice you to stop doing any activity that can causes the pain. Go to a doctor and start your treatment. Don't wast time waiting for a miracle! Check your posture and try to do smaller piano sessions.

Also, dimes to doughnuts you curl your fingers rather than the relaxed natural curve when playing. That's 18th century technique and should be a specialism.

There's a test for excessive tension that you can try if you can get someone to assist:

Have the other person sit next to you on the piano bench while you play, and at some random time, stick an index finger under your wrist and try to flip your hand away from the keys. They should be able to do it easily. If they can't, you have too much tension in your arms.

There's not so much wrong with curved fingers - you need them for playing fast scale passages so that the fingers are all even. However, there is a difference between a curve and overly tense. Tension is a complex issue that really needs to be addressed by someone who can observe and give feedback based on what they see.

I've gotten tennis elbow when I was doing a lot of interior trim painting with a brush. It wasn't gripping the paintbush that caused it. It was the repetitive flexing of my wrist as I went either up and down or back and forth with the brush. So, I would think any overuse of the wrist will cause tennis elbow. I agree you probably need to see a doctor and a piano teacher both to analyze what is exactly going on. In the meantime, there are many tennis elbow braces on the market that stop the activity in the wrist from reaching the elbow which can mitigate pain. Ultimately, you need to find the cause. But, with a brace, you can keep it from getting worse if you must continue activity.

A few years ago, I developed tennis elbow while working on a Mozart sonata. I can't say exactly what I was doing that was causing it, but definitely I was too tense, particularly when playing octaves. I know that my wrists were pretty tight too. At the time, my doctor gave me a brace (which I wore just a few times), recommended "ice massage" (massaging the area with an ice cube), anti-inflammatories, rest, and a stretching exercise that is difficult to describe in words. All of these things did help. Also, honestly, I don't think it was just piano that did it; typing on the computer can really exacerbate it too. My doctor did not seem surprised that I developed tennis elbow from piano, so I don't think it's all that uncommon.

Hope yours feels better soon!

Age can be a major factor. I'm at the age where I'm forced to grow up both mentally and physically. It can be a pain. . . .it can be several pains!