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Good idea PhilipInChina - with most of the Tier 1&2 pianos, at least in a smaller place like here, there will only be one piano, so it's probably not important. But with uprights and more mainstream grands where they might have a quicker turnover and a few of that model in stock, you want to buy "the" piano you fall in love with - not one "the same".

Also looks as if you mean business!

Narj, hi there how long did you stay with the digital?
Thanks

Either I'm reading these numbers wrong, these are scammers or London is a great place to buy pianos. Just looked at London's Craigslist for "piano"
http://london.craigslist.co.uk/search/sss?sort=rel&query=piano

I see a Yamaha C7 grand for £3900 ($5700USD)
A Bechstein Model III for £2400
A couple of Steinway uprights for about £4000 and £8000.

I'm confused.

Hi,

I've been playing since 2009 when I bought it, it's got to the point where I struggle in lessons now because it's just nothing like my teacher's grand! Some of the keys are getting quite resistant and it's just not fun. Some evenings I'll get in, look at it and think that I just can't be bothered.

Must say I now remember why I abandoned the idea last time. This process should be fun but then I get a bordering on aggressive sales pitch or negativity towards other dealers/brands and it just pees me off. I'm heading up North one weekend shortly to try out some recommended places.

I've had very little to do with digitals - or should I say that I've avoided them. Several times I've been working away in the country for periods of time (up to 5 months once), and the only "piano" I've been able to play was a digital. Nope - after a couple of goes, the novelty soon wore off. Then I'd try to "play" with some of the gimmicks - and that didn't last long either. The walk home was more exhilarating.

I think that you'll find your excitement level will increase dramatically when you have an acoustic to play and practise on.

Be patient - ignore any sales pitch you don't like and just play their pianos till you find "THE ONE".

Hi Narj,

For £10,000 you can get a beautiful upright, and I think it's still possible to get something decent for £5,000.

At the top of my list for £10,000 I would be looking at the Yamaha YUS5 which Jason has just purchased. The Kawai K800 of course, wonderful instruments.

Then there are some of the hand built (I mean it's a silly term really, all pianos have to be hand built.... I'm not actually sure exactly what it means these days) German uprights.

Ronisch and Haessler, by Bluthner are very good pianos but to be perfectly honest I'm not sure you'd find that they were better than Yamaha and Kawai - it absolutely depends on the sound profile you are looking for.

Bechstein (not C. Bechstein, you can't get a C. Bechstein for £10,000) is a wonderful piano too. I'm not sure of the UK prices, but again it depends on the sound profile you like.

Schimmel for me is a beautiful piano, but it's one of these instruments that an amateur pianist finds difficult to fathom whereas a professional pianist will be revelling for hours in the tone - it can do so much but you really have to have a very good technique to get the best from it. That said, if you persevere with a Schimmel Konzert for instance, it will eventually get the best out of you but when I think about it, it's beyond your budget. I don't know the lower-grade Schimmels at all.

I really want to try the new Petrofs, I've been hearing so much about them and everyone I've spoken to that has played a Petrof in the last 10 years has said it's an excellent piano. Sadly I've not had the opportunity.

When buying a piano you really have to get the best fit for you. Of course you have to consider your budget and space, but you have to find the instrument that is most comfortable for you. It has to fit the level you are playing at now and be able to take you beyond where you are now.

I kind of get the feeling that you'll not find something better than the Yamaha YUS5 - it's a pretty hard upright to beat. Oh, on the subject of being able to find something decent for £5,000 - I've heard a recording of this upright and it sounds very impressive on the video - since you'll be going to Chris Venables anyway (or you should if you haven't planned it already) you should try the Venables and Son Custom 133.

Just a thought but there is another recent thread by a British poster who was impressed by a number of uprights in Paris: https://www.pianoworld.com/forum/ubb..._revelation_on_uprights.html#Post2410470

It may be that Paris prices (while still at the very top end of your budget) will get you the quality you're after. There are a number of piano sellers in the location mentioned but you could have a nice day/weekend investigating for yourself (it might be preferable to oop north - I can say that, I live here) or the OP in that thread might be able to specify a shop or two for you.

If it were me though I'd investigate delivery options first!

Yeah that was me. If you buy in Paris you may still have import duties to pay so it's not really the best option, and it's more difficult for the dealer to honour the guarantee.

I'm not sure about current day Ronisch - they may have improved. My mother bought a Ronisch in about 1990 - it was never a good piano, very unstable with tuning, parts of the case weren't finished properly, and after 20 years, the hammers started delaminating. I'd suggested she buy a U3 YAMAHA at the time, and, when she got rid of the Ronisch, she ended up with a YAMAHA and is very happy with it.

Petrof - I've played quite a few of their uprights over the last 6 yrs or so, and been quite impressed with them (more than their grands). Not sure of your price in UK, but a few yrs ago, they were "discounting" them to less than YUS5 and K8s in Australia.

Schimmel - the upright I've enjoyed most that I've ever played was a Schimmel - though, a smaller model was substantially dearer than a YUS5 or K8.

Yes that's true about the old Rönisch - they were made in the east german piano factory that also made Zimmerman, Niendorf, Alexander Hermann, and a few others but they were all virtually the same piano. A friend of mine has a Rönisch upright from that same period and it's horrible.

HOWEVER:

The company was bought by Blüthner about 5 or so years ago, and now they make a range of upright and grand pianos that are pretty much identical to the Haessler pianos. They are excellent pianos made with the highest quality parts, in the same factory as Blüthner, and they are nothing like the 1980s/early 1990s examples carrying the same name.

There shouldn't be import duties (EU) but other factors may come in - notably delivery. I think it would be worth investigating with the shops mentioned in your thread (Joe's that is). I think we're talking about London (might be wrong) and Paris here so any there shouldn't really be any more hiccups than if it were Paris and Lyon (spoken with the authority of someone who doesn't have do it).

Pianos Nebout and Pianos International, both on Rue De Rome, Paris. Nearest train station is Gare St Lazare, which is if memory serves on Line 4 of the metro, only about 4 stops from Gare Du Nord (La Chappelle)

Hi Narj,

Obviously I'm going to agree about the YUS5 being hard to beat for less than £10k. I have just bought one after all, and am very glad I did . But far more importantly in terms of adding something that might help you (especially given that my love for my YUS5 is largely irrelevant given Yamaha's aren't your t hing), I'd really second Joe's comment about a visit to Venables being a must as part of the decision making process. It's where I bought my YUS5 from, and they were superb throughout the process, as well as clearly taking a lot of pride in their prep work. Even allowing for the fact that Yamaha's aren't your thing, they also carry Petrof, which might be more to your liking. Having tried the Vanables and Son Custom briefly too, I'd agree that that's certainly worth a look too given the competitive pricing.

While heading that way, I'd also head to Ben Wheeler near Basingstoke. He's another technician retailer and some of the small Grotrians would be in your budget and might suit you. I was there only about three weeks ago, and the Studio model he had there at the time really impressed me.

Interestingly, I found the service generally much better from dealers outside of central London (although Steinway Hall and Bluthner in Town were both excellent). Out of interest, where have you been so far?. As you say, the process should be fun, but like you, I found much of it surprisingly stressful.

Given that the OP expressed a strong dislike for Yamahas 'I can't stand Yamahas - they make my ears bleed and I don't like the touch of their uprights' I find it rather odd that so many posters are suggesting that he buy one; equally he says that he has a budget of 10,000 pounds and doesn't have room for a grand so why bother suggesting that a grand is what he needs? (particularly when the sort of grand he is likely to buy new at that sort of budget will be - at best - somewhere between mediocre and awful)

I have expressed this view before and make no apologies for making it again, at this sort of price level a good quality upright is a far better bet than an indifferent small grand. And if you don't like Yamahas (I don't either frankly) don't buy one.

Then have a look at the Kawai K.800, or one of the German pianos.

Petrof are priced about the same as Yamaha, and there is this nice German make called WIlh. Steinberg, which is a beautiful hand made German piano - although they do I think have some lines made in China too if you want to investigate a lower priced option.

This is true but not for pianos under the name of IQ Steinberg.

Few years ago I played one at a German Steinway dealer in Southern Germany.

WE both agreed it was one of finest pianos in his shop.
I was actually quite taken aback at that time.

Norbert