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I have an 1879 Schiedmayer 6' grand, but in a very small room, with wooden flooring. As a result the piano is extremely loud, which is rather a big problem for me as I have to practise for at least 2 hours a day, and it is starting to have an effect on my hearing. Furthermore, the dynamic range of the piano seems somewhat limited at the moment; it's basically loud, or a bit louder if you put a lot of weight into it. I think that this is more the problem than the room that it is in.
Therfore, I have been thinking about asking a technician to voice it down, but wanted to know whether people think that this would be a good idea or not. As well as generally making the piano quieter, I was hoping that this might help to increase the dynamic range, but I'm not really sure. Does anyone know if this is the case? If anyone doesn't think that this is a good idea, other than buying a smaller piano, which I am not in the financial position to do at the moment, could you please advise me as to what the best thing to do might be?
Finally, if possible, could someone also give me an idea of how much it might cost to have the piano voiced down, as I really don't have a clue!
Thank you all so much, I look forward to your responses.
Toning down a piano can increase the dynamic range if done properly. I have found on my piano (that has been voiced very mellow) that the voicing is deceptive. At first it feels like there is no tone at all, and then gradually you get into it and before you know it you're steering the Titanic away from the iceberg on crescendos... but also you get far more in the lower dynamic range - pianissimos become luminous AND possible.
First of all, as far as your hearing is concerned, play with the lid closed, and put a drape of some kind over the top of the piano, and you might want to use hearing protection if it's causing problems.
Whether or not the piano can be voiced will depend on the condition of the hammer heads.
Thank you ever so much for your comprehensive reply; that's exactly what I needed to know. I have some ear plugs which I use at the moment; but they still don't stop me from getting a headache after long periods of practise.
I think that the hammers should be in good condition, although I'm no expert. Apparently it was fully restored in 2007, and everything is new really.
.... the dynamic range of the piano seems somewhat limited at the moment; it's basically loud, or a bit louder if you put a lot of weight into it. I think that this is more the problem than the room that it is in
Lewis
The experts here will tell you that your piano may need regulation and tuning rather than voicing but, really, you ought to provide some more information. Who restored the instrument and what was done? A recording?
I see now that you have posted on YouTube:
Good luck.
Last edited by Withindale; 03/30/1504:13 PM.
Ian Russell Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
Greetings, We had this subject come up before, and I posted this some years ago, so i will just copy and post it again.
Trying to make a big piano work in a small room is a common challenge. Voicing the hammers down will change the sound by removing higher partials in the note. However, this often creates a bigger sound, just not as bright.
Voicing is concerned with two directions; the individual notes have to match one another in their "voice", and the overall level of the piano must be suited to its use. Well voiced means different things to different people. Recording studios need much of the lower frequencies of the notes to be reduced, for clarity, leaving those pianos sounding brassy or thin to the ear. Classical artists want the widest range of tonal control, from mellow pp to clangorous FFF, and all points in between should have an ascending level of brilliance. This is the ideal hammer, one that offers a malleable tone, changing in brilliance as the force is increased. The jazzers I know like a brighter pianos, the songwriters like the softer ones, (except for the older songwriters, who need hearing aids and need a pretty bright piano to even hear what they are doing).
The piano user can check their "voicing" themselves, if they want to analyze their piano. You should do this to yours.
Play a note from ppp to FFF, gradually. Listen to the amount of shrillness, and how it arrives as you play the note from its softest to its hardest. Some heavily played pianos are brilliant at pp, and never change tone, they just get louder as you play them harder. Others may never get beyond a dull thud, no matter how hard they are played. Often there is a certain level at which the note suddenly becomes more metallic. This is common with hard, flat hammers, and makes control of tone nearly impossible, since the brilliance comes on like a light switch, when what the pianist can most easily use is a gradual ramping up of the brilliance.
After getting the ear focussed on the change of tone within one hammer, then begin comparing up and down the keyboard, chromatically. Do this by playing a mf on each note three times, and not staccato, but a little less than 3 times a second. It is best done with two fingers and a stiff wrist for consistency. Do all the notes sound alike, or are there occasional ones that jump out as louder or much softer? Do the notes individually "ramp up" the same way as their neighbors? And finally, on a grand, push the una corda pedal ,(on the left), and recheck how even the scale is. It requires attention to keep the una corda voicing even, too.
A malleable voicing is preferred, and even then, the beginning point can be suited to venue. In the home, even a 5' grand can produce enough sound to fill a house, so it needn't be voiced brightly for power and projection. The practice room piano needs to be voiced well below optimum, since the industrial use it gets means the hammers will be hard again, soon enough. The concerto pianos begin fairly bright and progress to distortion at their extreme level of play. The chamber music crowd would need CPR if you opened up on them with a piano like that. Since we are more sensitive to the higher frequencies, a well voiced hammer can allow a melodic line to be brought out with just enough added force as is required to raise the brilliance, rather than needing large increases in volume alone. A piano quartet rarely needs a big piano played loudly, so a wide range of tone is desired. This gives the pianist a large degree of control, which they seem to like.
Humans have extraordinary abilities to sense things, and a nicely regulated action with well voiced hammers will produce an instrument upon which your musical abilities will express themselves with the least amount of conscious input,(this is, of course, after the hours and hours of practice to make a piece second nature). Excessive hardness will make you, unknowingly, hold back as you play. This is a source of unrecognized tension, and I suspect this is as likely to be causing a headache as the actual sound pressure levels. If a piano's tone makes your shoulders tight, something is wrong. Your piano should require your maximum force to produce its maximum brilliance.
Voicing is a large subject. The above is the briefest scratching of the surface, but I hope it will give you some criteria to judge what you have in front of you.
A piano can get very loud and easily pass the 100dB. Practicing several hours a day can be damaging for the hearing, and I learned it the hard way.
Has anybody tried reducing the down bearing on the bridges and getting a lower volume longer sustain to mitigate the described problem? I recognize that it is a much more drastic measure than voicing the hammers and much more difficult to predict end results. Any reason why you would not do it?
Voicing will not necessarily make the piano softer, but it can make it easier to play more softly. It also can remove some of the harshness of the tone.
Voice down the room also. Thick carpet under the piano, heavy furniture, heavy curtains, stuff on the walls, break angles between opposing walls, ditto the ceiling.
Nordiska 120CA (Dongbei) upright from about 2004, Kawai MP11 digital piano, Sennheiser HD 600 headphones.
.... the dynamic range of the piano seems somewhat limited at the moment; it's basically loud, or a bit louder if you put a lot of weight into it. I think that this is more the problem than the room that it is in.
Hi Lewis,
Voicing may be an answer and quietening down the piano and the room may help too. You might consider re-engineering the piano to suit the hammers, as has been suggested, or you might do the reverse and re-engineer the hammers to suit the piano.
However, before deciding on a solution, it would be a good idea to ask a technician to identify and assess any problems. Your YouTube videos give everyone here an opportunity to do just that.
A recent post in another thread described two identical grands in a small reverberant room. One sounded great, the other did not. One was in tune, the other was not.
When I was buying a piano, of similar vintage to yours, the restorer who had worked on it (around 2007 as it happens) said it would have been all too easy to fit hammers that would have made it sound like a brand X.
By 2012 it was not possible to play ppp on that piano because it had gone out of regulation. C3 would emit a loud thud at the slightest provocation. Other notes were all over the map. Your piano may have no such issues but it makes sense to rule them out before you attack the hammers.
135 years pianos ago were designed for hammers that were lighter and made differently from most today. There are plenty of examples in the archives here of hard modern hammers causing problems. In extreme cases you will find people have resorted to soaking them for a couple of days to soften them up.
Everyone,
A question, after listening to the sound of Lewis playing Rachmaninov and Chopin on YouTube, what would you advise for his piano?
Ian Russell Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
A recent post in another thread described two identical grands in a small reverberant room. One sounded great, the other did not. One was in tune, the other was not.
Correction:
A recent post in another thread described two identical grands in a small reverberant room. One sounded great, the other was loud. One was in tune, the other was not.
Ian Russell Schiedmayer & Soehne, 1925 Model 14, 140cm Ibach, 1905 F-IV, 235cm
For me, as a musician, there are three things you need to do to play your piano well and with good dynamic range. Then are some other things you can do when you want to practice.
First and above all, the piano must be friction reduced and well regulated, especially the letoff. Second, the hammers need to be voiced for optimum tone production. Third, you must learn to play softly. This can be done when you have completed the first two items above.
Next, for practicing, put the lid down. Put a rug under the piano. Put a string cover in the piano. I made one from heavy quilted material that lays over the strings without touching them. The above three items allow you to work the full dynamic range of the piano when practicing without damaging your ears.
Once you have learned to play softly, and it may take a long time, you can enjoy the tonal and dynamic range of your piano without the sound attenuators used for practicing.
Have you talked to your technician about what service he/she finds the piano needs?
I hear a very out of tune piano that doesn't have enough warmth to the tone when you try to play softly. Making sure the hammers are properly shaped, spaced, fit-to-hit-the three-strings-at-the-same-time, and the action is well regulated combined with a solid tuning will make a big difference. But some hammer needling may be needed before all of the above work is done to bring the general state of the tone into one with the full complement of dynamics and tone color possible from this instrument.
This could take more than one day.
In a seemingly infinite universe-infinite human creativity is-seemingly possible. According to NASA, 93% of the earth like planets possible in the known universe have yet to be formed. Contact: toneman1@me.com
Hi all, In the situation of a bright sounding piano say with older hard hammers that have been shaped, could someone speak of the process of treatment with softening the hammers with a solution of fabric softener? Would this be an easier method or more effective than ironing/steaming? thanks
In extreme cases you will find people have resorted to soaking them for a couple of days to soften them up...could someone speak of the process of treatment with softening the hammers with a solution of fabric softener?
