Piano World Home Page Forums Our Most Popular Forums Adult Beginners Forum Can you still practice without metronome?

Thanks for the concession. Honestly not needed, these are recorded facts, very little to discuss about it.
Just to say it one more time, because I think you keep missing the point.

Playing deliberately with flexible tempo is one thing. Playing with flexible tempo because incapable of keeping a steady tempo is another thing.
The results in some case might be terribly similar but, the GOOD musician has the skills and deliberately can control his fluctuations, the unskilled one, can't.

Other some people have a naturally good pulse, other will suck the rest of their life no matter how hard they exercise.

Only if you can count without using your fingers.

I really am missing your point it guess. Because we seem to agree on the end, but disagree on the means (the importance of the metronome). I think practicing playing the piano with the metronome is not the best way to solve problems with the pulse. I am certain it's not the ONLY way, which was the original question in this thread. I don't know if the problems are solvable in every case, but I have seen fast results with other methods.

Now why do I think this discussion is important? Because beginners without teachers who read these threads need to know both sides of the coin. If they think excessive use of metronome without knowing when or how to use it in a useful way is the answer, they can waste a lot of time. And I know how you feel about not having a teacher and I mostly agree, but I can't change how things are...

I keep not understanding why you think I suggest an "excessive" use of the metronome... To me is a very very minor part. I'm not suggesting to play constantly a whole piece with the metronome, neither to use it every day, but to use it when something "different" is encountered to solidify a good division and as verification tool once in a while. For example I like to set my metronome to beat only the first beat of the bar, if I'm playing a reasonably long piece, to see how much I'm keeping it together.

Why I do think the metronome is a very important tool?,It is because it's an extremely cheap tool (especially now with phone apps and so on) that can be your external judge when you are not with your teacher. When you verify something you always need an external objective reference because human senses are not -that- accurate.

Music can be extremely complex to count, doesn't matter how good you are and getting the basics solid from the beginning is important.
As personal example, I had to review my ability to play 3 against 2 when I studied Beethoven Op14 #2 because this:
https://youtu.be/25BCBH9tNaw?t=4m3s
and this:
https://youtu.be/25BCBH9tNaw?t=15m56s
I found out that I was able to keep it together for very short period of times, not for so many bars at that speed. And because this is a section of music where the temptation of cheating a little to make it easier is well alive, especially in the final coda, the metronome keeps you honest.

Same here, in Op 2 #1, there are plenty of 4 against 3 and 3 against 2 like in this section of the second movement....
https://youtu.be/T6YTd9z8PQM?t=7m32s
In a way with Beethoven is somehow easier to divide because he have orchestral cues in his piano music.

Somebody that is, to me, quite difficult is Debussy. In Pagodes you have polyrhythmic figures even in the same hand besides quick accelerations and long breaths with no cues at all. You have places where you need to stretch the rhythm to very big extents and you need something to help you to regain the original pulse.

I would have a very good analogy with running, but I think is going to be as obscure :-D

I don't think you do. If you got that impression I apologize. I am simply bringing out the fact that many people do that.

Someone very experienced in teaching told me that the metronome is mainly useful as a tool for more advanced pianists who know what they are doing. I tend to agree. Those who need to ask on a forum about whether to use it or not most probably don't belong to that group. You do, so my posts were never meant to address your practice habits...

And I use the metronome too occasionally so obviously I think it can be useful

thumb up.

I have this article on using the metronome for developing better trills from Grand Piano Passion _-- I am not affiliated with this site, but like this tool

http://www.grandpianopassion.com/2010/11/16/adult-piano-lessons-practicing-trills-metronome-2/

Btw, speaking about feeling the groove and not needing a metronome:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=THKo3nYZfkM
Sometimes you just need to let it go and follow the flow.