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Just order from howard industries.

How are you measuring the pins. Looks like you are using poor tools. You need a micrometer, and a teacher :P

7.1 mm = 0.279"

1/0 = 0.276" (7.01mm)
2/0 = 0.282" (7.16mm)

Standard procedure when replacing loose pins is to go up two sizes.

Let's say you have size 2/0 pins. Go up to 4/0 pins. (0.291" = 7.39mm)

Good luck.

You do have a pinblock support don't you?

Teach to the standards required. A student may fall short at first but... May not. Otherwise it is the blind leading the blind isn't it? Too much of that here. I see teachers holding students back because they themselves don't know the standards at least aimed for in the real world.

Besides, I have known enough students who reach the standard first time to waste their talent teaching pablum just to get by. Not many, but enough.

I recently observed a student orchestra being conducted by an unsupervised student conductor. This is a reportable offence. I will do that when I next lunch with the Principal.

I measure it at the widest point, just below the hole.
I don't need a micrometer, I use a Vernier caliper and know how to use it. I could teach you that if you'd like.
If it's 7.1001 or 7.0992 it's irrelevant.
It's 7.1.



The piano is German, late 1800s.
Not very likely that they would use inches.
And on that German site, for example, "sizes" go up by half a tenth of a mm. (after 7.5 by a bit more, but then).
So two sizes would be one tenth more, 7.2... maybe 7.25?



No, but I can easily make one.
BTW, I don't really know why the head of that pin is in such bad shape. It's the topmost pin. I guess it's been used to test things. Which one would because that string is the least useful of all. Maybe even by me when I didn't have a lever. Can't remember really.
The other ones aren't like that.

Forget the online training. Buy yourself a Yamaha tuning scope learn the basics of using a tuning lever, how to set the strings and the pins and give yourself 5 years to tune like a pro. Takes lots of practice. Not something that you are going to learn just out of curiosity on your own. You ultimately need to train alongside a teacher.

I've taken some of your comments as defensive. If I am wrong, I apologize.

The inch/mm thing is moot. The point being make sure you are going larger by the industry accepted amount.

You have reported the size incorrectly. It most certainly is relavent. You should have reported it as 7.10mm. Look up "significant digits". You are showing yourself as arrogant and we will not tolerate that behaviour; we will stop giving you free advice.

Measure in the middle of the threaded area, not the top near the hole. Measure all around to get an idea of ovalness. Measure at a few spots along the threads to get an idea of taper.

I'm sure you can make a pinblock support, but more importantly:
- Were you aware you needed one? What other precautions are you unaware of?
- Do you know why you need one at all? What could happen if you didn't use one? Basically I will tell you, you could ruin your piano. I am not accustomed to using these dire warnings, but in this case, it is no exaggeration. But what do you think/know could happen to your piano?

Your piano looks like it is in pretty good shape. It looks pretty clean inside and out. I am confident you could do these repairs yourself, but if you don't accept the possibility that you could ruin the piano, or you aren't prepared to deal with that possibility, you are not being realistic. If you find my comments offensive, especially after all the free professional advice I've given you, I will not be answering any more of your questions or commenting anymore on your topics.

Please respond. I suggest a dose of humility and respect.

No need to apologize.
Or to take it too seriously I hope.

I mean you wrote :



Yeah well, I don't need a micrometer. Tenth of a mm. is good enough. I know nothing about pianos, but I'm a decent mechanic and machinist.
I can read a tenth on a Vernier caliper.
So I was saying, maybe you don't know how to do that -because I figured if you did, you wouldn't tell me I need a micrometer, so maybe in this case you need the teacher.

I put a little smiley at the end of it too, so why take it so seriously I wonder.


Er. 7.10 mm. is 7.1 mm.



Well, it wasn't meant to be arrogant. Or defensive.
See above.


Well, I see you are still giving free advice, for which I am grateful... as I've said repeatedly in this thread.

Ok. I did... it's 7.1 all along the length except where it tapers.




Well, I hadn't addressed the issue of changing the pins yet, as I didn't have any.
Luckily I had read about having to tap them in.
Knowing a few things about mechanics, and wood - I have worked quite a lot of wood - well... I simply can't see myself hammering a pin into a piece of wood without solidly supporting it... so... I don't know.

So, what other precautions am I unaware of... probably lots.
Call me reckless. I probably am.
I ride a Ducati 916 S4 every day.
I'm a small boat captain.
I'm restoring two Citroën DSs ('68 and '72) all on my own.
I'm 58.
I'll try and exercise some common sense and take my risks.

If I end up ruining it... so be it.
I tried giving it away for free - repeatedly - nobody wanted it.
Somehow I don't think I will and I'll be stuck with it for years

You have not looked up significant digits, have you?

7.1 = 6.5 to 7.4

7.10 = 7.05 to 7.14

They are not the same. This is standard engineering practice. As a mechanic, you should already be aware of this.

Hammer in pins without a support and you risk splitting the pin block. I've seen many grands ruined this way by amateurs.

That can't be right. 6.6 one would write 6.6 and 7.3, 7.3, why write 7.1?

Anyway, I hope we can just see this as a slight misunderstanding and forget about it... I wasn't being aggressive, just kidding, used the smiley and all.
I'm Italian, not really my fault, I was born there



Well, that's why I wrote "I simply can't see myself hammering a pin into a piece of wood without solidly supporting it"
I honestly don't think I would do it.
But I do appreciate the warning. I do.

I thought that 7.1 = 7.05 to 7.14.

Yes, exactly, Chris.

7.1 rounds everything from 7.05 to 7.14, i.e. a range of 0.1, centred around 7.1.
7.10 rounds everything from 7.095 to 7.104, i.e. a range of 0.01 centred around 7.1(0).

Yeah, well, I'm getting 7.25 and 7.35 pins (20 of each), we'll see how it goes...

I think I missed up the math. The point is, significant digits produce different tolerances. Tuning pin sizes have more tolerance than 2 significant digits when reporting in mm.

Let me try again.

7.1 is rounded off from 7.05 to 7.14 (Thank you Chris)
7.10 is rounded off from 7.095 to 7.104

If your site sells by half a tenth, it should have listed sizes like 7.05, 7.10, 7.15, etc.
7.1, with the tolerances shown above, would include 2(3?) different sizes. I hope that is clearer now why 7.10 is the proper way to list the size.

According to standard procedure, you should use 7.40. Use a torque wrench and confirm 5 N-m minimum, when trying to lower pitch.