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#2368731 - 01/02/15 09:46 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 776
Loc: Rainy England
Interesting post Elene!
To get a sense of how Chopin's music sounded Trevor Stephenson gives you an idea:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_fg2YELtzo
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Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy.
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#2369049 - 01/03/15 03:56 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: verqueue]
Puzzle Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/01/15
Posts: 10
Originally Posted By: verqueue

The problem is that sometimes we don't know what Chopin had written.


Yes that is really sad....

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#2369060 - 01/03/15 04:32 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Elene]
Puzzle Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/01/15
Posts: 10
Originally Posted By: Elene
I was looking up something in the Eigeldinger book the other day, and was struck again by the stories from Chopin's students about how he never played any of his own works the same way twice.


I have also read this and as he says himself he plays after his emotion, it is normal that it could never sound the same.

I do not think that there is only ONE right way. but when I hear some interpretations, I just think that it is the wrong way... I do not know how to explain what I mean. I think it is often played too "virtuoso", too loud, wild, fast... maybe not from the heart

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#2369085 - 01/03/15 05:27 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Puzzle]
verqueue Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/31/14
Posts: 212
Loc: Europe

If I had to choose the worst recording of Chopin played by some known pianist it would be this (of course it's my opinion only):



I don't like her approach to any piece by Chopin.
What do you think about this?
_________________________
Some stuff about my own practice: http://practice-piano.blogspot.com/ (Rachmaninoff, Chopin, Schumann)

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#2369088 - 01/03/15 05:30 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
Polyphonist Offline
7000 Post Club Member

Registered: 03/03/13
Posts: 7929
Loc: New York City
The passage from 7:22 on is particularly horrific.
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Polyphonist

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#2369675 - 01/05/15 05:57 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: verqueue]
Puzzle Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/01/15
Posts: 10
Originally Posted By: verqueue

If I had to choose the worst recording of Chopin played by some known pianist it would be this (of course it's my opinion only):


Yes that is exactly what I mean. Too much (russian) passion.... crazy

But if this is the worst recording, you have to tell me what do you think is the best grin

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#2369679 - 01/05/15 06:09 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
verqueue Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/31/14
Posts: 212
Loc: Europe

My favorite recording of Ballades is by Rubinstain, but it's based on my taste, not on correctness.
What is your favorite?
_________________________
Some stuff about my own practice: http://practice-piano.blogspot.com/ (Rachmaninoff, Chopin, Schumann)

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#2369709 - 01/05/15 08:03 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: verqueue]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1441
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Originally Posted By: verqueue

My favorite recording of Ballades is by Rubinstain, but it's based on my taste, not on correctness.
What is your favorite?

For the 4th one it is this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fqPN4gXy834

That is based on my taste, not on correctness wink.

For the others it would be difficult to decide.

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#2369717 - 01/05/15 08:25 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: verqueue]
chopinoholic Offline
Full Member

Registered: 05/02/13
Posts: 193
Loc: Eindhoven, The Netherlands
Omg verqueue. Good to see I'm not the only one that thinks this the worst ever. Thanks!
I was listening to it and my jaw dropped, how can you play it like that? Didn't finish it...

I love this recording:
http://youtu.be/iHpPDu8MNgw

Also because of the sound of the Erard. It adds something.
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#2369743 - 01/05/15 09:28 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: chopinoholic]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1441
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Originally Posted By: chopinoholic
Omg verqueue. Good to see I'm not the only one that thinks this the worst ever. Thanks!
I was listening to it and my jaw dropped, how can you play it like that? Didn't finish it...

I love this recording:
http://youtu.be/iHpPDu8MNgw

Also because of the sound of the Erard. It adds something.

The right Erard can be a very special piano, as desirable in its own way as the right N.Y. Steinway D wink. Most Erards when restored don't turn out that way, though . . . but a few come out like that on the other end.

Here is a non-restored one, the music isn't Chopin's . . . even through the bass that has become hollow and through the very [very!] bright hammers, with much of the majestic power of the instrument now absent, one can hear a particular glamour and nobility/dignity in the sound - I imagine most Erard grands, when new, would have had that along with everything else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=docWp_IJiXw

I would like to hear some Chopin on that one . . . I guess one can imagine it.

Now I am going to go practice for several hours - you all should be practicing, too!

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#2369763 - 01/05/15 10:24 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: chopinoholic]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 776
Loc: Rainy England
Originally Posted By: chopinoholic


I love this recording:
http://youtu.be/iHpPDu8MNgw

Also because of the sound of the Erard. It adds something.


Nice recording.I'd like to know what the tuning is; has an interesting sound.

This is my own absolute favourite of the Ballad no 4 played by the British pianist Sam Haywood:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvF4veVCsQo


It is played on Chopin's actual Pleyel piano!!! smile

I have the CD- it is excellent! In the CD sleeve there is some information about the piano and Sam's experience of playing an antique piano such as this one- how it feels different to play etc.


Edited by EdwardianPiano (01/05/15 10:37 AM)
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Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy.
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#2369767 - 01/05/15 10:42 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Michael Sayers]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 776
Loc: Rainy England
Quote:
Here is a non-restored one, the music isn't Chopin's . . . even through the bass that has become hollow and through the very [very!] bright hammers, with much of the majestic power of the instrument now absent, one can hear a particular glamour and nobility/dignity in the sound - I imagine most Erard grands, when new, would have had that along with everything else.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=docWp_IJiXw

I would like to hear some Chopin on that one . . . I guess one can imagine it.


This piano is not restored?! You're joking? It sounds wonderful!!!! I cannot imagine what it would soind like "restored"- it would be magnificent!!! wow

I like the pianist too- he looks like he's from the 1880s. smile

Oh I LOVE antique pianos!



Quote:
Now I am going to go practice for several hours - you all should be practicing, too!


He he Michael! You will be a great pianist with all that practise! thumb


Edited by EdwardianPiano (01/05/15 10:43 AM)
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Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy.
Ludwig van Beethoven.

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#2369786 - 01/05/15 11:47 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: EdwardianPiano]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1441
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
The hammers probably have been refelted some over the years, the Erard company used to do that for their pianos.

I don't take personal credit for piano accomplishments. Anything in music that is really worth doing isn't something that can be constructed by a human mind - that is just my opinion, though I do know that it is true. One can read Arthur M. Abell's interviews with some of the great 19th century composers to see what the source of it all really is, and it isn't anything that was learned in composition lessons. Brahms received his compositions fully finished even in all details of the part writing and orchestration. I almost feel unworthy to play such music.

Your blog is very nice, by the way.

I'm not a beginner, though I do post here. When I restart performing and it is on a new basis about others (not about myself) I'll be attired and billed as a 19th century type pianist. Before then I might hit you up for some tips or suggestions.

Now it is time for another half hour of rapido leaps of octaves, after which I'll be too weak to hardly open a jar of pickles!

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#2369813 - 01/05/15 12:53 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Michael Sayers]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 776
Loc: Rainy England
Quote:
The hammers probably have been refelted some over the years, the Erard company used to do that for their pianos.


It is a beautiful piano; and it looks like it has been loved and cared for over the years- which it totally deserves. I am watching/listening to the video again- about the 5th time now lol. My friend came earlier and liked it also.I never heard of Theodor Leschetizky before- just looked him up. I like this music very much. He lived to a great age-85! And was still teaching at that age!



Quote:
I don't take personal credit for piano accomplishments. Anything in music that is really worth doing isn't something that can be constructed by a human mind - that is just my opinion, though I do know that it is true. One can read Arthur M. Abell's interviews with some of the great 19th century composers to see what the source of it all really is, and it isn't anything that was learned in composition lessons. Brahms received his compositions fully finished even in all details of the part writing and orchestration. I almost feel unworthy to play such music.


I know what you mean...
And imagine a beginner like me plonking away at "easy" one/two paged versions of Beethoven and Haydn lol... blush



Quote:
Your blog is very nice, by the way.


Thank you Michael. I love sharing music, literature, poetry, arts etc...
I think I will post Mr Ritzen's video as it is so beautiful!

Quote:
I'm not a beginner, though I do post here.


Nice to have you. smile

Quote:
When I restart performing and it is on a new basis about others (not about myself) I'll be attired and billed as a 19th century type pianist.


Sounds great!

Quote:
Before then I might hit you up for some tips or suggestions.


I don't think I would be of much help unless it is about Victorian clothing!


Quote:
Now it is time for another half hour of rapido leaps of octaves, after which I'll be too weak to hardly open a jar of pickles!


He He. What make is your piano?


Edited by EdwardianPiano (01/05/15 12:55 PM)
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Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy.
Ludwig van Beethoven.

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#2369842 - 01/05/15 02:15 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: verqueue]
Puzzle Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/01/15
Posts: 10
Originally Posted By: verqueue
My favorite recording of Ballades is by Rubinstain, but it's based on my taste, not on correctness.
What is your favorite?


I am still searching.... especially for the 4th ballade (my favorite one).
I do have the Rubinstein Box but I have to listen again. I do not remember the ballads now but they do not make me stop searching wink

I will listen to the Links here and there are still many versions I do not have (Moravec, Perahia, Arrau, Lear etc.) Maybe I have some time this week... grin

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#2369952 - 01/05/15 07:28 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: EdwardianPiano]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1441
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
He He. What make is your piano?

To be honest, I technically haven't owned a piano in years, and have come to prefer it that way - maybe the right flat-strung Erard, or the right pre-1940s N.Y. Steinway D, would be nice - but otherwise, any old upright for $500 equivalent will do.

There is a pre-Soviet Petrof grand here where with me. The restoration is good enough that it doesn't sound particularly modern. And humble use is made of a Roland F-110 which I do own and which prevents neighbours from complaining too much at odd hours. The Roland is close enough in touch/response to be okay, and I must say, it has proven quite durable!

You are right about Leschetizky. I performed the Intermezzo in Octaves a few times many years ago, and some of his other music is attractive, too . . . and as in the link with the beautiful Erard in that castle, there is some left hand only music.

Here is something which you might not have heard . . . it isn't by Leschetizky . . . but I bet you will like it (we are getting way off topic now, I hope no one admonishes us too harshly!):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NTQJeso9DQs

Without the great composers there wouldn't be nearly as much for us pianists to do . . . and the piano wouldn't have developed the way it did . . . so next to them one can feel very humbled. Many of the piano makers have been geniuses as well, especially Herr Steinweg.

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#2369955 - 01/05/15 07:37 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 776
Loc: Rainy England
Looked up Roland.

Is this what you have?

http://www.gumtree.com/p/pianos/roland-f-110-digital-piano.-good-condition/1085976141

Yeah, Privia Piano doesn't disturb my neighbours either! LOL.

Thanks for the link.

What did you think of Sam Haywood playing Chopin's Pleyel?
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Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy.
Ludwig van Beethoven.

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#2369977 - 01/05/15 08:18 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: EdwardianPiano]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1441
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
That is the same model Roland. I think the neighbors possibly do hear my digital when I play (the so-called "pounding"). That Roland really is amazingly durable!

I enjoyed hearing Sam Haywood on the Pleyel. It is a good sounding Pleyel in my opinion (only some 19th century Pleyels can be like that, just as with the 19th century Erards). I bet though that it sounded better in 1846 wink.


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#2369979 - 01/05/15 08:21 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 776
Loc: Rainy England
Yes, my Privia seems quite tough too! But where it is situated is not on either of my neighbour's walls, and I turn the volume down if playing after 10pm!

Of course the Pleyel sounded good- it used to belong to Chopin! smile

Yes, imagine when it was new in 1846!

I bet Chopin was very happy with it.
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Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy.
Ludwig van Beethoven.

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#2369993 - 01/05/15 09:00 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: EdwardianPiano]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1441
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
I bet Chopin was very happy with it.

So long as Liszt didn't lay hands upon it wink.

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#2370113 - 01/06/15 07:05 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: verqueue]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1441
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Originally Posted By: verqueue
The problem is that sometimes we don't know what Chopin had written. For example this famous C natural/C flat in Ballade f minor - Ekier's edition suggests that it's C natural, but in the others it's C flat.
I'm playing this Ballade now, and I studied various editions. I still don't know which edition is the best, because there are a lot differences between them... I'd never thought that they can be so different.

The other thing is that playing all these details is so hard. And still it can be imagination of an editor, not composer marks (even in Ekier's edition).

I side with the E-natural in the C Minor Prelude.

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#2373925 - 01/15/15 04:39 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Michael Sayers]
Puzzle Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/01/15
Posts: 10
I could listen to some interpretations (while working) and I liked this one:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pHTk9us3RyE

But there are so many on youtube I have to spend more time when I'm not so busy and listen more intensively...

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#2374361 - 01/16/15 02:02 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Puzzle]
verqueue Offline
Full Member

Registered: 10/31/14
Posts: 212
Loc: Europe

I think I prefer Zimmerman's version than Yundi Li's. They play almost in the same tempo, but Zimmerman use rubato better and he build the form better in my opinion.
_________________________
Some stuff about my own practice: http://practice-piano.blogspot.com/ (Rachmaninoff, Chopin, Schumann)

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#2375926 - 01/20/15 02:37 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: verqueue]
Puzzle Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/01/15
Posts: 10
I just listened to Zimmermann and actually find it very good. Only he is to me sometimes too loud, then I have to adjust the volume constantly....

I have also heard Koczalski today and find it very interesting. Somehow different and fast but I hear new things ... I have to listen more closely to Koczalski


Edited by Puzzle (01/20/15 05:14 PM)

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#2376079 - 01/20/15 11:44 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Puzzle]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1441
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Koczalski sometimes is extraordinary . . .

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#2376365 - 01/21/15 04:48 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: Michael Sayers]
Puzzle Offline
Junior Member

Registered: 01/01/15
Posts: 10
Originally Posted By: Michael Sayers
Koczalski sometimes is extraordinary . . .


yes that seems so. I have not heard anything, but I also like the mazurkas quite well

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#2376367 - 01/21/15 04:50 PM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: loveschopintoomuch]
EdwardianPiano Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 07/29/11
Posts: 776
Loc: Rainy England
Thought you may all enjoy these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tmK7N7gJ00
_________________________
https://edwardianpiano.wordpress.com/

Music is a higher revelation than all wisdom and philosophy.
Ludwig van Beethoven.

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#2376511 - 01/22/15 12:54 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: EdwardianPiano]
Michael Sayers Online   content
1000 Post Club Member

Registered: 02/15/13
Posts: 1441
Loc: Stockholms län, Sverige
Hi EdwardianPiano,

Thanks for posting that!

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#2376577 - 01/22/15 06:15 AM Re: Just for those totally devoted to Chopin [Re: EdwardianPiano]
RaggedKeyPresser Offline
Full Member

Registered: 03/14/14
Posts: 92
Originally Posted By: EdwardianPiano
Thought you may all enjoy these:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8tmK7N7gJ00


That is delightful stuff, EdwardianPiano.
I had to listen twice in a row to this!
Such a lovely character in that early Viennese Conrad Graf pianoforte.
_________________________
Now working on: the theme from "Love Story", and 3rds in diatonic scales.
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Currently mainly playing a 24-bit depth sampled Bösendorfer 290 Imperial in a true Quadraphonic sound system.

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