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#2328322 - Yesterday at 07:34 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: indigo_dave]
Mark Polishook Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 661
Loc: Leicester, UK
Dave,

Nice recording!

About harmony: You mention voice leading ... that's the concept that trumps everything. The total complete reference to it is J.S. Bach's Chorales.. They're full of stuff that applies directly to jazz and really to everything and anything

Another way forward with voice leading is look at transcriptions of great jazz pianists (and listen to the recordings along with the transcriptions). For example Wynton Kelly playing Whisper Not. Assuming the link goes to the Wynton Kelly Jazz Piano Collection then Whisper Not is the first transcription in it. The main idea is information about harmony and voice leading can come right from the source.

Here's Keith Jarrett's Koln Concert (from 1975): http://www.africanafrican.com/jazz%20and...ng%20Edited.pdf.

So both of those sources let you see exactly what WK and KJ were using, how they put their ideas together. Etc. Add in recordings and the lesson is there!

Here's a link to The Imperfect Art by Ted Gioia ... it's a good companion to Reading Jazz.

You mentioned The Poetics of Music–also from the same book (you've probably seen it) is: "The more constraints one imposes, the more one frees one's self. And the arbitrariness of the constraint serves only to obtain precision of execution."

Anyway, if you have questions about harmony or voice leading, or how to use transcriptions to pull out info you'd like to find just ask. And, again, NICE RECORDING!

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#2328517 - Yesterday at 08:25 PM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
indigo_dave Online   content
Junior Member

Registered: 05/17/12
Posts: 14

I'm ashamed to say I do actually have The Jazz Piano Book. I have some other books I've ordered over the years that I've not dug into. But it sounds like this have independent chunks. I'll look into
it.

Regarding chops. Scales. I started playing a regimen of scales most days about a year ago.

I added 3 jazz tunes to my soundcloud page. They are "Mood Indigo", "Song For My Father" and "Night and Day". Do you have a cloud account ?

https://soundcloud.com/david-goethe/tracks

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#2328661 - Today at 07:50 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: Mark Polishook]
indigo_dave Online   content
Junior Member

Registered: 05/17/12
Posts: 14
Thanks Mark. I just ordered the "Imperfect Art" from amazon. Who can argue with being a "Jazz book of the century" by Jazz Educator's Journal.

And I do have the J.S. Chorales. Actually, I ordered a new version (and have sitting on my piano music stand) a few months back. The edition is called "J.S. Bach 413 Chorales Analyzed". It has the the functional harmony analysis ( I IV V and so on) and also the the chord names (Bb Eb). I've not really used the analysis but do sight read through sometimes.

I guess my concern has been holes in my knowledge. I was trained and educated classically. But I don't know the jazz theory that people learn in organized courses these days.

By the way, when I was in my late 20's, I stumbled on "Preliminary Exercise in Counterpoint" by Arnold Schoenberg. I worked through a good part of the book's exercises. It was a huge revelation.

Changing gears here...I read something some months back. Something about Thelonious Monk developing his style with the intent that other musicians would have difficulty stealing his "style" and ideas.
Has anyone else read anything about that ?

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#2328679 - Today at 08:54 AM Re: Jazz Study Group 2: Advanced Players [Re: jazzwee]
Mark Polishook Offline
500 Post Club Member

Registered: 11/29/12
Posts: 661
Loc: Leicester, UK
Dave,

Hope you like that book. I used to teach a class w/it eons ago. It always inspired a lot of heated discussion. I mean HEATED!

About the particular edition of the chorales you mention - it's laid out fabulously. But the chords as they're labeled are often very wrong. It doesn't mean it's a bad book ... it's just that it's not an authoritative book that's been edited, reviewed, etc. by peers and colleagues. And as an analysis of the chorales it's a place to start ...

Unfortunately there isn't yet a book that shows directly how to use the gold mine of the chorales in jazz. The closest thing I know of is a Downbeat masterclass article w/Fred Hersch where he describes his approach to it. If you have questions about it just let me know ...

If you have a classical ed. - and you've already mentioned good books you- read in that vein - then you've got something on which to build. Jazz definitely has a lot of stuff in common with classical music. Look at transcriptions (or even do some transcribing) and it's there to be seen.

These days the best 2 counterpoint books are probably by Peter Schubert. He teaches counterpoint from written and improvised points of view. I still think Schoenberg's Theory of Harmony is the best book on chorale style harmony. But everyone has their favourite harmony book - for classical and/or jazz

About Monk and his style ... there's all kinds of stories about him. But there's also an excellent detailed biography - Thelonious Monk, the LIfe and Times of an American Original - with a lot of stuff in it that was previously maybe not totally known. Basically, Monk had very serious, comprehensive classical training. He could play anything and he knew a lot. No surprises there smile

Through the 40s and into the early 50s he had a hard time getting steady gigs. So he was known in those days as a teacher to a lot of young jazz musicians. If anything he was seriously generous with his knowledge in those days. At least according to the book I mentioned. He also always had serious emphasis on finding his own style. Which in general was the ethos of the day.

I can hear in your Soundcloud recording ... the boogie one that the vocal stuff has some great voice leading going on. Very nice arrangement.

There's an amazingly talented guy in London - he's probably not yet 20 - who has some great stuff on Youtube.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=K28H04Y2IdE

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