Subject: music book to start a 4 year old on piano? From: steve To: All Date Posted: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 08:31:50 (EST) Email Address: jmrattet@mediaone.net Message: i'm a professional keyboard player and i'd like to start teaching my 4-year old daughter piano. can anyone recommend a good music book to start her with? i want to teach her how to read music and play piano. thanks

Subject: Re: music book to start a 4 year old on piano? From: David Burton To: steve Date Posted: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 12:18:24 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: John Thompson's Teaching Little Fingers To Play

Subject: Finally bought an upright! From: StephenP To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 06:05:57 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Having received a lot of helpful advice in this forum, including the direction to buy Larry Fine's amazing book, I took the plunge in December and bought a new Petrof 125 (50') upright. The dealer took care to prep two of them for me and I chose one I found slightly mellower and more consistent than the other. It sounds wonderful and really I can't imagine why I spent so long looking at similarly-priced Japanese pianos. Friends who would have sworn by Yamahas or Kawais are stunned that my piano - an interloper from the Czech Republic whose name they thought had gone out with the Cold War - sounds this good. All agree it's mellow but clear - projection is not a problem at all. I paid Ģ4,000 Irish which is about or a little more than what a Yamaha M110 costs here. That says it all, I think - I'm certain that I could not manage any better buying new. Incidentally, the Yamaha U1 is about Ģ1000 dearer, allowing for some cash discount - but frankly it's bright and I don't think it sounds as sweet overall or as tuneful in the bass. Hand-on-heart, I would have been almost as happy with the Petrof 115 as with the 125 - the 115 was a pleasant surprise (once I heard a decently-prepped one). The old piano route proved depressing - I think dealers are dumping worn-out, big-name old pianos onto the Irish market - more or less as 'furniture'. That'd be fine if these things cost only a few hundred pounds, but the dealers are charging several thousand and you'd better believe they are NOT spending the time to rebuild them or even restore them with any degree of care. I'm very grateful to the kind correspondents who regularly answered mine and others' letters on this subject. Thank you indeed.

Subject: Re: Finally bought an upright! From: David Burton To: StephenP Date Posted: Sat, Feb 19, 2000 at 01:46:15 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Joining the chorus of congratulations on your new Petrof piano which is certainly one of my favorites right now. StephenP says, 'The old piano route proved depressing - I think dealers are dumping worn-out, big-name old pianos onto the Irish market - more or less as 'furniture'. That'd be fine if these things cost only a few hundred pounds, but the dealers are charging several thousand and you'd better believe they are NOT spending the time to rebuild them or even restore them with any degree of care.' It doesn't matter what the technique, just like worn out old cars, some peddle worn out old pianos to the unsuspecting. Sometimes they're new too. I'm beginning to wonder how much is in the product and how much in the prep. And as we have seen, pianos are sensitive beasts, if you don't take care of them they don't get better, they tend to degenerate, sooner or later. The worst things are not to keep one's piano in tune from the very start or putting your piano where it wont do well like near a heater or in direct sunlight. In any case no one should buy a piano for thousands of pounds (whether Brit. or Irish) or thousands of dollars for a piano that isn't in top notch preparation.

Subject: Congrats, Isn't this a fine place... From: Mat D. To: StephenP Date Posted: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 08:45:16 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: ...to learn. Stephen, you have purchased a very fine instrument and you can have the confidence that you have done your homework and bought the best possible piano for you. Play in good health, Mat D.

Subject: Congratulations on your purchase! From: jodi To: Mat D. Date Posted: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 09:25:21 (EST) Email Address: jodi@radon.chem.uidaho.edu Message: Here's to many happy days of playing your new Petrof. Congratulations!

Subject: Re: Congratulations on your Petrof! From: Joy To: jodi Date Posted: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 12:47:52 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I remember your past postings (I learned a lot from YOUR observations, too) and feedback. You shopped carefully and well. What a nice reward. The Petrof 125 is a truly wonderful piano. Hearty congratulations! Joy

Subject: Mat D. --- CD burner questions... From: John D. To: All Date Posted: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:42:20 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Mat, I figured it would be best to start another thread on this topic... I have a few questions I'd greatly appreciate your help with. 1) A few months ago you recommended that I purchase a minidisc recorder. I believe you made that suggestion to me since a minidisc recorder makes high quality recordings (equal to those of a CD burner?) at a relatively inexpensive price. True? I know I was highly focused on price at the time. I have two reasons why now I'd like a CD burner. First is to make recordings of myself playing the piano (makes wonderful gifts for people you don't like - haha). And second is to make CD's of my favorite recordings to play in my car. When I bought my Jaguar (ok, ok, it's really a Ford), I stupidly ordered a single CD player and compounded the mistake by not ordering a cassette player in addition. I have lots of cassettes of my favorite songs that I cannot play in the car. I am also looking at purchasing a Pioneer 300 CD player/changer. The Pioneer player/changer has features I really want. Crutchfield seems to strongly suggest the Pioneer CD burner to go along with the changer. With all I said, does it sound like I'm headed in the right direction? I really don't know all the terminology (like Redbook) that you mentioned. Sorry for the long question and thanks in advance for your help. John D.

Subject: CDR burning questions... From: Mat D. To: John D. Date Posted: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 00:17:50 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: John--that's just a small joke (in the heading). First of all, don't worry about 'redbook', as you are apparantly never going to use your CDR's as masters to be duplicated. I do think you are heading in a reasonable direction since CD's are the standard for playback & everyone has one. The MD is a bit more user friendly and easily re-recordable & editable (cut/paste/names etc.), but having said that, the CDR is a good choice for you. The 300 disk changers are great--I have a 200 & I'm, going to add a 300 (SONY). As for the actual burner, I would recomend a 'pro' model (a bit more money, but cheaper to operate-less expensive discs-) Guitar Center has a TASCAM (CDRW 5000) model available for $699 which i have used & is excellent. There is a Marantz (forgot the model #) model available for a few $ less that I have used & it is also excellent. If you must buy a consumer model, don't worry about it, just know that you must use 'consumer' CDR media which is more expensive (ask around about pricing). One more thing, if you burn CD tracks one at a time (as opposed to disc @ once), you will not be able to play your CD on any machine but a CDR until you 'FINALIZE' the disc--this locks it up & allows you to play it on a normal CD player. This is just the spec for CDR burning --- just thought you should understand these things. As you can see, CDR's are great, but not quite as convenient as MD. One more thing, you will still need that Mic-Preamp in between your microphone & the CDR if you are to record your piano (2 mics, in fact--L-R). Hope that helps just a little, Mat D.

Subject: Mat - just a few more questions... From: John D. To: Mat D. Date Posted: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 15:24:56 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Mat, You helped much more than a little! I never heard about 'finalizing' a disc before you could play it on a non-CDR machine. Why doesn't anyone tell you this stuff??? I guess you just have to ask the right questions and have access to smart people on the internet! Thanks again. One more question about the Mic-Pre-amp... I know we discussed this way back when and I thought you recommended a mike that had a pre-amp built in. Am I remembering correctly? If so, does the mike with the pre-amp not work with the CDR or is it just better to have two mikes and a separate pre-amp? Thanks, John D.

Subject: recording your piano & CDR answers... From: Mat D. To: John D. Date Posted: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 23:21:14 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: John, To my knowledge there is no microphone with built-in pre-amp. I assume you are talking about 'stand-alone' CDR burners (as opposed to internal PC CDR's)when you refer to CDR burners; You will need a dual channel mic pre-amp and two microphones--the mics are plugged into the pre-amp (left & right channel) and the output from the mic-pre is plugged into the CDR input-that's it! When you monitor the levels on the CDR digital meters, you should NEVER exceed 0dB because digital audio is very unforgiving of distortion (anything above 0dB) as opposed to analog audio which actually sounds good when pushed to it's limit & slightly beyond (+3 or 4dB); this dosen't make it better or worse, it's just the facts of life and you need to know that. The only variable in the above situation might be a stereo microphone, but this will still have left & right cables. In the above situation you are better off with (2) microphones (be sure they are balanced mics w/XLR connectors or the mic-pre is useless) because the stereo mics are usually unbalanced (1/4' jack instead of XLR (3) pin). There are a couple mics I would recomend (1) RODE NT1 is available at Guitar Center $199 each (excellent value). Another is the Crown CM700 --similar pricing. Regards, Mat D.

Subject: What's the least amount of equipment I need? From: jodi To: Mat D. Date Posted: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 10:36:52 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Here's a question from a non-computer/audio technology person on this subject (maybe its not on this subject - I'm not sure!!): What's the least amount of equipment I would need to get something from my piano to a place on the web where someone could click on it and hear it? It doesn't have to be high quality. Is there an easy way to do this? We have a microphone that my husband has recorded our kids singing on, and sometimes it just pops up (the singing) when I'm on the computer. If that's in the computer, then I am assuming I could get the piano in the computer. How difficult would it be to transfer that to a web page? (is that what these midi files are? - I am a total novice at this) Thanks! Jodi

Subject: some answers-audio on the web... From: Mat D. To: jodi Date Posted: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 14:30:12 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: Hi jodi, If you can get audio into your computer & you are happy (maybe satisfied is a better word) with the sound, you are half way there. The audio that you record into your computer (whatever software your husband may be using) is saved as a .wav file. This .wav file needs to be converted into an mp3 file (this is a highly compressed audio format that uses much less bandwith to upload onto the web), this mp3 is then uploaded onto the net (do a search for mp3-you'll find lots of stuff)and can be accessed by visitors. you need to find a site that you can upload your mp3 file to(your search --'mp3' will finds lots of these sites as well as free software to convert .wav files to mp3 format). The above is the easiest part of this process--it is not particularly easy to record a piano, but again, if you are satisfied--that's all that counts. Give it a try! Mat D.

Subject: Re: some answers-audio on the web... From: jodi To: Mat D. Date Posted: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 14:45:03 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks, Mat. The reason I asked is because occasionally, when I am working on a piece, I have a question about phrasing, or something, and I thought that it would be neat to be able to post the part I needed help on somewhere, and ask for opinios. You are right, though - I may not be able to make a good enough recording to be useful for that. ( I belong to a pastel group, and we used to chat in a room where we could post the paintings we were working on and critique each other - it was very helpful.)

Subject: Help!!! From: Piano World To: All Date Posted: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 21:57:00 (EST) Email Address: webmaster@pianoworld.com Message: Ok folks, I've watched you helping each other and our new visitors, now I'm asking you to help me. I expect to launch the completely re-designed Piano World sometime next week and I need your help (yes, you). Because I have had to spend so much time hand coding the new pages (almost 500 of them) I haven't had a chance to add much new content lately. So here is what I would like to ask: Please help me add content to Piano World! I'm looking for: Helpful hints (cleaning keys, polishing high gloss finishes etc.) Stories (interesting stories about pianos, pianist, concerts etc.) Jokes (funny music-related stuff_ Links (good links to resources for things like concert tickets, information, interesting piano facts, free music sources etc.) Suggestions for: Words for our wordsearch puzzles (take a look at the ones there now) Fun facts (facts about pianos, take a look at what we have now) Ideas What else would you like to see on Piano World? By the way, I am considering setting up a system for some 'live' discussions. Wondering what you think about it, when would be a good time (Sunday nights once a month?)? My thanks again to everyone for all of your help. Hope to hear from you soon. Sincerely, Frank Baxter Webmaster Piano World PianoSupplies.com

Subject: Re: Help!!! From: William To: Piano World Date Posted: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 21:26:45 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Lately you are receiving a good deal of two way conversations which are not responsive to a forum format, if this is the use to which your visitors wish to use this page then I will no longer spent time here. Two-ways are best handled off-line through personal e-mail. AS to 'chats', David Burton has been an impressive and prolific contibutor, why not enlist his services and let him play host and set up format. This guy get my vote as MVP on this site!!! David, would you care to weigh in?

Subject: Two-way Conversations From: jodi To: William Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:39:36 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Lately you are receiving a good deal of two way conversations which are not responsive to a forum format, if this is the use to which your visitors wish to use this page then I will no longer spent time here. Two-ways are best handled off-line through personal e-mail. AS to 'chats', David Burton has been an impressive and prolific contibutor, why not enlist his services and let him play host and set up format. This guy get my vote as MVP on this site!!! David, would you care to weigh in? --- I actually email back and forth to quite a few people on this page when I've got something to say that probably only that person would be interested in. I'm sure others do to. And I know it can be frustrating trying to sift through threads that you aren't interested in. But I wouldn't want to give up too much of the back and forth. And everyone has been much better recently about changing the headings on their posts, which makes the 'sifting' much easier. Jodi

Subject: Re: Two-way Conversations From: William To: jodi Date Posted: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 20:14:29 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: thanks Jodi your points are well said and appreciated

Subject: You're welcome! From: jodi To: William Date Posted: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 21:19:18 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: :)

Subject: Re: Two-way Conversations/ We've moved on, OK? From: Joy To: jodi Date Posted: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 02:41:16 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: You are so right, Jodi. I was glad the idea of changing headings came up, it's been MUCH easier to find specific threads to refer back to when checking back on comments. I for one enjoy reading many of the 2-ways being exchanged (for example, the MP3 queries, the Charles Walter piano affair -- happy ending) any back-and-forth related or indirectly related to the piano. The topics have been so interesting, and no one ever objects to anyone else jumping in with their ideas. Besides, these '2-way conversations' aren't really 2-way when it's posted for EVERYONE TO SEE, even the silly asides. Seems to me this issue has already been belabored, ideas were exchanged & offered, and points digested, days and DAYS ago, a dead issue before William materialized and needlessly resurrected it so this whole long OLD thread was again dragged back to the top of the heap. We've learned, let's move on. New topics, new threads, new headings, oh my. Somebody please start a new thread and make this one sink.

Subject: Re: Help!!! From: Mat D. To: Piano World Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 00:12:09 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: Frank, First of all, thank you very much for being such a gracious host every day (& night). One feature that would be nice to see implemented is the ability to attach a scan to our messages. This feature was there for a couple days (I posted a scan of a M&H piano) and then gone. Thanks for your 'open-door' policy! Mat D.

Subject: Re: Help!!! From: Lyn To: Piano World Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 06:49:57 (EST) Email Address: Keepsake@provide.net Message: Hi Frank, It certainly is nice to meet you. I'm fairly new to this site but I really love it, as a matter of fact, it's addicting. I have learned so much from the wonderful people that share these boards. The last piano that we purchased was a little Henry F. Miller spinet back in 1962 and it finally died a few years ago. The people here have introduced me to brands that I wasn't familiar with and I've been going to local piano stores and trying them out. So far, my favorites are the Seiler and the Mason Hamlin. Ryan told me about Sauter but I haven't found a store near me that carries them. You asked about humorous stories, what a great idea!!! I'm loaded with them! I'm one of those people that when something happens, it usually happens to me. It is interesting and helpful to know that we all have had some of the same funny or embarrassing moments. To give you some ideas, there are some stories we all shared further down in the threads in Piano Player's Corner. This site is by far the best out there and the people here are just great. One thing I would like to see are some links to sites that contain bio information about the composers themselves. They are absolutely fascinating when you get in to how they lived, what they were like, etc. Thanks for the great site, Lyn

Subject: Re: Help!!! From: gdon To: Piano World Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 20:46:15 (EST) Email Address: gwood@fastlane.net Message: This is the main piano site i visit. This is a great site. My only request is that there be some sort of 'discreet' mode so that when i view this page at work, it is not so obvious when my boss walks by. Everyone knows i play piano so would be nice if the forums did not display the nice pictures of pianos, etc.. That way is could still give the appearance of 'working' while i am really enjoying learning more about my number one priority, piano; of course, if this is not implemented i will still read the forums daily and the other information as well. I hope i can contribute something useful someday. thanks,

Subject: Re: Help!!! From: Joy To: Piano World Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 17:14:29 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Frank, Nice to meet the webmaster behind this wonderful website. I owe so much to the Piano Forum for becoming a confident piano shopper. Nothing like being well-informed and well-supported when making such a major purchase! And look at all the fine people you've attracted. Thanks so much for making this site so friendly and available to us all. Just wondering: will you be setting up a FAQ corner? Seems to me the same questions often re-occur, ie: WHAT IS MY PIANO WORTH?, I'M LOOKING FOR A PIANO FOR AROUND $5K, WHAT'S THE BEST KIND TO LOOK FOR, etc etc. Seems to me a grouping of the best past responses could be posted for these general queries. Not to mention, a big boost for Larry Fine's book. Keep up the great cause. Joy PS: Yikes, does the type have to get smaller?

Subject: Re: Help!!! From: Patti To: Joy Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 11:36:35 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Just wanted to put in my vote FOR the smaller type. I like it because it allows you to see more threads on the screen and it's just on the main message listing, the messages themselves aren't smaller.

Subject: Oh, my old eyes! From: Joy To: Patti Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 02:55:48 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: You have no idea how SMALL the messages look at MY end. You see, whatever text type you PC'ers see is always 2 sizes smaller on a Mac. No Mac bashing, please. Here we love our 3 Macs as passionately as we do our M&H. :( Joy

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: Ben To: Joy Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 03:53:11 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I sympathise with you, Joy. Remeber the last time you flared up when i kept doing this: (,,)double commas? And when i started using short forms? :)

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: Joy To: Ben Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 17:03:51 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: If only I could color that happy face red! ;) Sorry I got so cranky back then, Ben. Joy

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: Ben To: Joy Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 09:44:48 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: It was also my fault. ;) Ben

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: ryan To: Joy Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 12:57:16 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: Joy, does your browser have an option to increase the font? I am currently using Netscape and under the View menu there is an option called Increase Font that makes the type larger.

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: Joy To: ryan Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 20:34:13 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Ryan, I just installed Netscape. Made the font 14 point. WHAT A DIFFERENCE!!! A big HAHA!!! to Bill Gates. Joy

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: Joy To: ryan Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 15:25:38 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I'm using Internet Explorer. I may be switching ISPs altogether, I'm so sick of AOL. Then I will use Netscape. Thanks. Joy

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: jodi To: Joy Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 11:04:43 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: oooo, how did you do THAT one? (the frowning face). I did notice the smaller type, and thought I needed new glasses. I do agree that it is nice to see more messages at once. I like the way this message board is set up - I went to visit the RMMP the other day, and did not like the way it was laid (layed?) out - all you could see was MSG 1, MSG2, etc, with no idea what each message was about. (there was a funny thread about oxymorons, though, ex: Budget Steinway) The other thing I would like to see here (and maybe its here and I haven't found it?) are some bio's from the regulars. I know some people would like to remain 'anonymous', but I have really enjoyed visiting David Burton's site, and it would be nice to learn more about the other interests of regular posters if they are willing - and to see a link to their web sites.

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: Joy To: jodi Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 15:32:26 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Yes, that would be fun! I may have my own site up and running before February is over, hopefully! It's mainly for my graphic design business, but there may be a side page of the kid (this may be boring, but I'm a mom), the cat and the piano. OK, for frowny-face, it's the colon and the open-parens, no space inbetween. Here's what I think of AOL: :( Here's what I think of all the posters here and the Piano Forum :) Joy

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: Andrew To: Joy Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 08:34:17 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Joy, Could you please help this ignorant? How to do the Smiley Face please? This is fun! Andrew

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: Joy To: Andrew Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 14:58:06 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: OK Andrew. Here goes: :) = colon followed by close-parens, no space, no hyphen-for-a nose between them. The FORUM software turns it into a smiley face. {Thanks Frank}. For some reason, this hat-trick doesn't work on the Piano Players Forum. For frowny-face: Type the colon followed by the open-parens, no space in-between. :( When you get slap-happy, try the semi-colon + close parens. ;) ;( Hmmm, don't try that last one. Joy

Subject: Re: Frowny face. . . From: Andrew To: Joy Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 08:32:28 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: :( Got to try it. See if it work. Andrew

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: jodi To: Joy Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 19:54:49 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: You are a graphic designer? Cool! Here is my web page (I paint): http://radon.chem.uidaho.edu/~jodi Can't wait to see yours! Jodi

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: Joy To: jodi Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 20:44:14 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Wow, Jodi! Just visited your site. You are GOOD!!! Do you teach at uidaho? I will write you shortly.I'm still reeling by how much better Netscape is than Internet Explorer on my Mac. :) Joy

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: ryan To: Joy Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 10:54:03 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: Joy, just a quick plug for the University of Idaho. Jay Mauchley at uidaho is a fantastic piano teacher and formidable performer. You can check out his history from the uidaho music school web site. As far as physics, Mike Brown, a UI physics professor, can get UI graduates into pretty much any graduate school with his signature.

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: Joy To: ryan Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 15:17:42 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Wow Ryan, thanks for the tip! Will definitely look into this further. This is so timely, since I'm planning to visit the College & Career Planning Center tomorrow evening at my son's school to pillage their college database. This is exciting! How did you know about UI? Joy Joy

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: ryan To: Joy Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 15:49:59 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: That's where I graduated from, so I had to give it a plug:) Especially when I realized that you are on the west coast.

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: Joy To: ryan Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 15:55:55 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Ryan, Was piano performance your major there? I gather your experience at UI was good, yes?

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: ryan To: Joy Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 17:46:15 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: I majored in piano performance for three years, and got an excellent education. However, I started to panic about what I was going to do with my life, and changed my major to engineering where I also got an excellent education. It's a pretty small campus that is really beautiful with beautiful landscaping and old, classic architecture. Might be worth looking into. It is always listed in the 100 top schools in the nation, and isn't a bad place to get an undergraduate degree.

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: Jodi To: Joy Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 22:51:29 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks, Joy and Andrew! No, I do not teach - I am currently a stay at home mom who paints (and plays the piano) in my 'spare' time. :)

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: Andrew To: jodi Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 20:38:22 (EST) Email Address: andrew.gan@prodigy.net Message: Jodi, Just visited your WEB page. All I can say is WOW!!! Your paintings are so photo-realistic! My favorites are 'Tut' and 'Cow Kids'. Astonishing artistry! Thanks a bundle for sharing with this board. Andrew

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: N.P. To: Andrew Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 10:11:54 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hi, Jodi I just went to visit your site and like them all. My favorite is 'Henry'. Thanks for sharing. N.P.

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: jodi To: N.P. Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 10:47:52 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks, N.P. 'Henry' was an illustration for a book.

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: Joy To: jodi Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 15:19:52 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: What book? :) Joy

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: jodi To: Joy Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 17:11:19 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: a family history - autobiography - of a man whose grandson (or maybe great grandson) had published as a gift to his family. He commissioned me to do some pencil drawings for it. (so its not one you could find in any bookstore!)

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: N.P. To: Joy Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 16:41:37 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Joy, I'm looking forward to see your site. As for the poor old eyes. You can increase the size of your font with IE as well. Here's what you do: Go to View,Text size then choose what you want. :) N.P.

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: Joy To: N.P. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 20:48:21 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks, N.P.! For some reason, IE is not as friendly to MacUsers (I knew I had a good reason for disliking Bill Gates). Netscape, on the other hand, is wonderful. Did you find a summer school for your daughter? I just received material from Northwestern U/High School Music Institute. Looks like a nice piano program they have. Joy

Subject: Re: Oh, my old eyes! From: N.P. To: Joy Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 09:58:47 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hi, Joy I'm glad you can read without having to squint.:) I thought I was pretty early about finding summer programs. Wrong!!!!:( Tanglewood and Aspen app. deadlines were gone. Cliburn Institute and Bowdoin are not up until March. But my daughter hasn't decided wheter she wants to go to a summer program or bumming around Europe. Is your son going to Northwestern's program?

Subject: Re:Bumming in Europe & summer music programs From: Joy To: N.P. Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 15:10:38 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hi N.P., Northwestern's his 1st choice. It's a 5-week program. Deadline is April 17 for audition tape and application. We're also looking into the possibility of his attending two 2-week programs instead, a chamber music camp at Western Mich recommended by a poster at the Piano Player's Forum, and Oberlin (which is one of the colleges we're seriously considering, since they have a good physics department). Still doing the research, luckily the deadlines are both in April too. Europe: they have some music programs there too, yes? I know Oberlin has two in Italy this summer, so there must be others. Classical music in Europe -- 'tho it's kinda sleepy there in August. Joy :) Joy

Subject: Re: Re:Bumming in Europe & summer music programs From: N.P. To: Joy Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 17:20:00 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hi Joy, There are programs in Europe but we haven't really look ( rather I haven't). I want to leave it for her to explore the possibilities herself. I promise myself that I won't do the leg work for her any more but I had a relapse. After last year with college search and competitions and keeping up in school and having to decide which school to go, she is laid back this year and didn't want me to give her much advice. My husband says to leave the kid alone, let her grow up, don't micro manage. Well, O.K. but she is our youngest, last kid to leave the nest. I wish your son good luck at his Bach competition.:):):) By the way what's he playing? If you don't mind my asking. N.P.

Subject: Re: Re:Bumming in Europe & summer music programs From: Joy To: N.P. Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 21:48:53 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks for your good wishes, N.P., it's much appreciated. Each competitor performs one Bach piece. My son is playing the Prelude from the English Suite #2 in A. Your comment about your 'relapse' made me smile. It's so easy to get so involved in our kid's adventures and stuff. It's like having a second job, being their administrative assistant, looking in to schools, keeping up on their competitions, making sure the orthodontist's appointment doesn't conflict with something the kid didn't bother telling you about. Sometimes I get aggravated, then I think about how much I'll miss juggling all this stuff alongside my own stuff when he leaves for college. You can't win. Oh, the travails of being a parental unit. Joy PS: Don't miss the Valentine's specials on the Bravo channel. One of the movies they will play is 'Stealing Beauty', another Bernardo Bertolucci film. ;)

Subject: Re: Re:Bumming in Europe & summer music programs From: N.P. To: Joy Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 10:08:12 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks Joy for letting me know. How did I miss that? Didn't even know there's going to be a special. N.P.

Subject: Re: Help!!! From: jim To: Joy Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 20:01:52 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: Joy -- that's a great idea, as long as those discussions of the Mason and Hamlins keep coming! Jim

Subject: Re: Help!!! From: Joy To: jim Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 20:22:17 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: :) :) :) Ah. If not a BB, then the A someday. . . . .

Subject: Re: Help!!! From: jim To: Joy Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 20:01:20 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message:

Subject: Re: Help!!! From: jim To: Piano World Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 09:53:04 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: Frank -- you run an absolutely terrific site -- I certainly appreciate all the work that you put into it. I have two ideas for your website. First, there should be a way for people to exchange information about the prices that they have paid for new pianos, organized by manufacturer and serial number, perhaps with space for the name of the dealer. This would greatly educate piano buyers about what they should be paying for pianos. Second, it would be helpful if the piano exchange was sorted by manufacturer and model -- it it were, I believe that that portion of the website would become much more popular. Jim

Subject: Re: Help!!! From: Piano World To: jim Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 12:58:49 (EST) Email Address: webmaster@pianoworld.com Message: Hi Jim, First, thanks for the compliment. I have someone working on a database for the piano exchange as we speak. It will allow searching on different criteria like price, brand, size, location etc. Now, as to the price posting/exchanging ... interesting idea. We could certainly do something like this, but I need to figure out how to organize it (with a minimum of maintenance) and how to advertise it. Thanks for your suggestions, keep them coming. Frank Baxter Webmaster Piano World

Subject: Re: Help!!! From: David Burton To: jim Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 11:04:52 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Jim says, 'Frank -- you run an absolutely terrific site -- I certainly appreciate all the work that you put into it.' I agree Frank. It's terrific. Jim says, 'I have two ideas for your website. First, there should be a way for people to exchange information about the prices that they have paid for new pianos, organized by manufacturer and serial number, perhaps with space for the name of the dealer. This would greatly educate piano buyers about what they should be paying for pianos.' I'd like to suggest that this concept should be enlarged for all pianos (new or used) and organized not only by manufacturer, dealer, and region, but also SIZE, and of course PRICE. What we'd be building is an electronic piano market information exchange. Jim even refers to his concept as an 'exchange'. Jim says, 'Second, it would be helpful if the piano EXCHANGE was sorted by manufacturer and model -- if it were, I believe that that portion of the website would become much more popular.' Oh, there is no doubt that such a service would be popular, there might be other technical indicators too, such as percentages, averages, etc. within each classification of size or manufacturer. I would like to set something of this sort up on my website if Pianoworld doesn't do it. But again, Frank, I want to thank you for making this website available to us, it is fantastic!

Subject: Re: Help!!! From: Marco To: Piano World Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 01:45:01 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I would like to see more on Adult beginners.

Subject: Joy : Two-way conversations, etc... From: jodi To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 09:32:59 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Joy, I had to laugh at your reply about dragging that old thread up to the top - thats exactly what I thought as I pushed the POST MESSAGE button: 'Ack - I brought that big thing back up to the top AGAIN' - when I should have done THIS, and started a new thread! (you do not need to reply to this post!) jodi

Subject: Re: Joy : Two-way conversations, etc... From: Patti To: jodi Date Posted: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 10:23:23 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Regarding 2-way conversations, I myself have gained interesting information from some of them and do not find them to be a problem. I don't think they are so pervasive that clicking past a few that I'm not interested is that big of a deal. Perhaps a good idea for everyone to do when engaging in a 2-way conversation is to preface the heading with the person's name to whom it is directed such as Jodi has done here. Then readers may choose to read or bypass these. I have noticed that certain people already frequently do this.

Subject: No message to click, just this :) From: Joy To: Patti Date Posted: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 14:24:40 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Kudos to the Charles Walter Co.! From: Vincent To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 12:18:22 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Re: Kudos to the Charles Walter Co.! From: Vincent To: Vincent Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 12:29:10 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Another empty post -- so sorry... I'll get the hang of this one of these days! In a recent post I described a number of problems with my new Charles Walter 1500. The most significant being a manufacturing defect in the soundboard. Since then, I wrote to the company and provided them with photographs. I'm happy to report that Charles Walter is going to replace my piano. I have always heard that they go out of their way to please their customers -- now I have experienced it first hand. I am quite impressed! They really do care and their pianos are awesome! What more could you ask for? Thanks again to all respondents -- you really helped! -Vincent

Subject: Re: Kudos to the Charles Walter Co.! From: Dave B To: Vincent Date Posted: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 14:12:35 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Very happy to hear the good news for both you and Charles Walter. Charles Walter realizes that customer relationships are very critical. I'm sure that Charles Walter will replace the soundboard and resell the piano to another customer which should be a good deal for both the customer and Charles Walter. Charles Walter loses a little capital, but gains the continued respect and future business of its customers within the musical world. Sounds like a winning resolution to an ugly problem !!!!!

Subject: Re: Kudos to the Charles Walter Co.! From: jodi To: Vincent Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:29:10 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Vincent, I am so glad they are doing that for you. I knew they would come through in the end. I have a lot of confidence in this company. On another note - they are apparently coming out with a 5'8' grand in the next year or so. Happy playing! Jodi

Subject: Jodi, what is the grand size they make now that you're getting? From: Patti To: jodi Date Posted: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 10:33:53 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Length: 6'4' From: jodi To: Patti Date Posted: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 10:38:37 (EST) Email Address: jodi@radon.chem.uidaho.edu Message:

Subject: Re: Length: 6'4' Charles Waters! From: Andrew To: jodi Date Posted: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 13:26:48 (EST) Email Address: andrew.gan@prodigy.net Message: Jodi, 6'4 Charles Waters? I envy you. That's the perfect size for a regular home. Congratulations for a fine piano!! Andrew

Subject: Charles Walter, a fine company... From: Mat D. To: Vincent Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 14:35:29 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: Vincent, excellent news! I had a feeling that if you contacted the company directly they would respond positively. Charles Walter is a fine company indeed. Mat D.

Subject: Valentines Day - what's your favorite love song? From: John D. To: All Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 12:25:18 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: In honor of St Valetine, Cupid and your significant other, I'd like to know your favorite love song(s). No more than 3. Mine are (in order): 1) I Honestly Love You (Olivia Newton-John) 2) Nights are Forever (England Dan/John Ford Coley) 3) Somewhere (From West Side Story as sung by Barbara Streisand). Later, John D.

Subject: Re: Valentines Day - don't forget Cole Porter! From: Joy To: John D. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 14:50:45 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: My all-time favorite, because it's such an exhiliarating song: Cole Porter's 'Night and Day'. I love the prelude to that song, just ONE REPETITIVE NOTE per phrase, tapped rhythmically, rapidly (like an SOS)-- it begins with 'Like the beat beat beat of the tom-tom...' and ends with 'You You You...' Tintinabulation of a happy heartbeat, so clever. Great mesh of words, rhythm and music. Joy ;)

Subject: Re: Valentines Day - don't forget Cole Porter! From: Cork To: Joy Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 15:47:10 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Nice choice, Joy. There are so many from the Porter/Gershwin/Arlen/Rodgers genre that are wonderful, it really is impossible for me to select a true favorite. I had song after song running through my mind last night and today just thinking about this subject; some funny, some sad, all superb. (Or silly -- Guys and Dolls: 'I love you, a bushel and a peck, a bushel and a peck and a hug around the neck. Hug around the neck and a barrel and a heap; barrel and a heap and I'm talking in my sleep about you, about you.' I sing that one to my kids . . . ) Cork

Subject: Re: Guys and Dolls + favorite songs From: April To: Cork Date Posted: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 22:58:31 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hi Cork, Thanks so much for reminding me of the Guys and Dolls song...my grandma used to sing that to me when I was little. I never knew it was actually FROM something - I thought she just made it up! LOL As for my favorite love songs, that's a tough one! Off the top of my head, these come to mind (not that they're necessarily my 'favorites', I just happened to think of them) :) 1. Angel Eyes: Jeff Healey (sp?) Band 2. Wonderful Tonight: Eric Clapton 3. Love me Tomorrow: Chicago There are many more, but those are the ones I could think of! Thanks again, April

Subject: Re: . . Cole Porter . . . and Irving Berlin, too! From: Joy To: Cork Date Posted: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 00:39:35 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Gosh, those are terrific lyrics! Great song to sing to the kids at bedtime besides. After I wrote my little post about 'Night & Day', I wound up playing an Astaire/Rogers soundtrack from 'Top Hat', which had "Night & Day". Fred Astaire was not only a great dancer, he was a wonderful song stylist! This put me in a great mood while working. Then later I went out on a walk/run/jog with 'Night&Day' and 'The Picolino' playing in my head. This music has the perfect beat for physical activity! :) Joy

Subject: Re: Valentines Day - what's your favorite love song? From: David C. To: John D. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 13:18:27 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: My favorite is 'Ribbon In the Sky' by Stevie Wonder.

Subject: Re: Valentines Day - what's your favorite love song? From: John D. To: John D. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 12:00:12 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks for the responses. Seems like Billy Joel and the Carpenters are the big winners. I also felt like a winner since I knew almost all the songs mentioned. The only two I didn't know were 'Laura' (David Burton's favorite) and 'Dedication (Mat D.'s favorite). Thanks! John D.

Subject: Carpenters & John Denver... From: Mat D. To: John D. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 22:33:55 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: ...songs were sung at our wedding (25 years ago). My wife & I picked an obscure Carpenters song 'Sometimes' (if anyone knows where I can get a copy I would greatly appreciate it) and a John Denver song 'Follow Me' for our wedding service. They were performed by two friends-Danny Raines (vocal) & Jim Roberts (organ)--I sure wish I had a video of that! BTW Corby had a good one: 'They Can't Take That Away From Me' is a great song. This kind of goes back to the 'desert island' question, it's hard to really pick just 2 or 3. Mat D.

Subject: Re: Valentines Day - what's your favorite love song? From: Dave B To: John D. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 11:46:23 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: In not give order, my favorite love songs would be: 1. 'Hurtin Each Other' Carpenters 2. 'She Believes in Me' Kenny Rodgers 3. 'Can't Live Without You' Barry Manilow

Subject: This one... From: Mat D. To: John D. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 09:29:46 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: 'Dedication' (Widmung) by Robert Schumann You are my my soul, my heart, my ecstasy and pain; You are my world in which I live, My heaven into which I am suspended, My grave into which I have laid forever my sorrow. You are my repose and my peace, You are bestowed to me from heaven; That you love me makes me of worth, Your gaze transfigures me, Lovingly you raise me above myself, My good spirit, my better self. You are my soul, my heart, my ecstasy and pain; You are my world in which i live, My heaven into which I am suspended, My good spirit, my better self. - - - - - - - - - - - - -- - - - - - On the lighter side, I love the Jerry Herman song 'I won't Send Roses' Mat D.

Subject: Re: This one... From: Angelique To: Mat D. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 15:18:00 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: In my haste to compliment Mat D. on his favorite love song, I neglected to register my own; an old song popularized by Edith Piaf many years ago called 'Hymne a l'Amour' or, in English, 'If You Love Me, Really Love Me.' I'm still very fond of the Chicago song, also from long ago, 'Color My World.'

Subject: Re: 'Widmung'. . .Mat D. From: Angelique To: Mat D. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 10:44:03 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Mat D., WOW!!! Not only are you a repository of musical knowledge...To have selected 'Widmung' as a favorite love song, you must possess a beautiful soul as well. Your responses never cease to amaze me!!

Subject: Re: This one... From: Andrew To: Mat D. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 10:22:36 (EST) Email Address: andrew.gan@prodigy.net Message: Mat, 'Widmung' by Schumann-Liszt is one of the most beautiful transcriptions for piano penned by anyone. Don't you think so? I play this piece often. Andrew

Subject: Re: This one... From: N.P. To: Andrew Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 18:41:12 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Are there recordings of this piece? Whose would you recommend? Regards, N.P.

Subject: Re: This one... From: Andrew To: N.P. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 19:04:59 (EST) Email Address: andrew.gan@prodigy.net Message: N.P., Van Cliburn's recording is available in most CD outlets. As a matter of fact he kind of resurrected this beautiful Liszt transcription during his famous '58 win in the first Tchaikovsky Competition. His is the version I'd recommend. This piece really suits his temperament. When I first heard it I could not have enough of it. I did not have the music then. Finally when I got the score about two years ago I immediately learned it and since have enjoyed playing it. It is breath-takingly beautiful, particularly on a good grand piano. What else can I say!? Andrew

Subject: Widmung & 'A good piano'... From: Mat D. To: Andrew Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 22:45:54 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: Andrew, you are so right. To do this piece justice, a good instrument is a must, in order to bring out the beauty of the melody and subtle harmonic shadings. I especially love the last few bars where the bass descends chromatically and the harmonies just 'melt' and resolve to Ab!!! I agree the Van Cliburn is an excellent recording--better than the Kissin IMO. Mat D.

Subject: Liszt Transcription From: jodi To: Andrew Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 21:06:38 (EST) Email Address: jodi@radon.chem.uidaho.edu Message: What does this mean - Liszt transcription? Would the music be available in the average sheet music store? Is it difficult? Thanks! Jodi

Subject: Re: Liszt Transcription From: Andrew To: jodi Date Posted: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 07:45:10 (EST) Email Address: andrew.gan@prodigy.net Message: Jodi, Mat provided a complete answer to your questions. Thanks Mat! I'd like to add that somehow I have this feeling Jodi, you have the capability to tackle the more difficult version. IMHO, this transcription is PERFECTION. Not one note can be taken out, nor can anything be added to it. Often when I play this gem on my grand I brought myself to tears. Talking about song of love. Anyway Jodi, try the difficult version first. I can hardly imagine that anyone will NOT be melted by its sheer beauty! Andrew

Subject: Re: Liszt Transcription From: jodi To: Andrew Date Posted: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 11:50:23 (EST) Email Address: jodi@radon.chem.uidaho.edu Message: Thanks Andrew and Mat D - I will order this piece from my local store - I'm looking forward to it! I have recently 'discovered' Schumann (don't know why I never played much of his works before - guess I was too hooked on Chopin, Beethoven and Gershwin.)

Subject: Re: Liszt Transcription From: Andrew To: jodi Date Posted: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 17:48:41 (EST) Email Address: andrew.gan@prodigy.net Message: Jodi, Have you looked into Arabesque, Op.18 since you mentioned Schumann? Pollini has this excellent recording on GPTTC series. Just curious. Andrew

Subject: Liszt Transcription/Albert version From: jodi To: Andrew Date Posted: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 18:09:38 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Nope - so I will look into it. I went by the piano store to visit our not-yet-paid-for baby today. I found the Albert's version of Dedication, and was able to sight-read through it - so I think I'll go for the more difficult (actual) version. Schumann seems to change keys A LOT - I was buzzing through the first part (with all the flats - don't ask me the key, theory wasn't something I learned a lot of!), then I got to the part where it changes to all the sharps - and didn't realize it. It actually sounded pretty good for a while in the wrong key... Anyway - I think I may need to get a recording of it too - since I won't have a teacher around to tell me when I'm missing a note or two... Jodi

Subject: Re: Liszt Transcription/Albert version From: Patti To: jodi Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 11:17:21 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Jodi says: 'I was buzzing through the first part (with all the flats - don't ask me the key, theory wasn't something I learned a lot of!), then I got to the part where it changes to all the sharps - and didn't realize it. It actually sounded pretty good for a while in the wrong key... ' Sharps! Accchhhh! Why is it that sharps are harder to play than flats (at least for me - does anyone else have this problem?)? I can play five flats with no problem but throw three sharps at me and I have great difficulty. Is this just a mental thing or is there actually a good reason for it? I doesn't seem like sharps should be harder.

Subject: Re: Liszt Transcription/Albert version From: jodi To: Patti Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:31:37 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: You know, I never thought about it, but I think you are right. I think I have more difficulty with sharps than flats also. Could it be that there are more pieces written in flat keys that sharp ones ?

Subject: Re: Jodi: Sharps vs flats From: Patti To: jodi Date Posted: Fri, Feb 18, 2000 at 10:28:38 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: That sounds like it could be right, Jodi. Maybe we're just more used to playing flats. Good thought!

Subject: Re: Liszt Transcription From: Andrew To: jodi Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 07:08:55 (EST) Email Address: andrew.gan@prodigy.net Message: Jodi, I knew you could go for the Liszt version! Go ahead and get yourself ready for your new grand piano. That's a Charles Walter. Do I get that right? Andrew

Subject: Charles Walter From: Jodi To: Andrew Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 10:55:33 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Yes, the Charles Walter. Apparently, they are going to come out with a 5'8' model in the next year or so. I will be interested to hear what it sounds like. Jodi

Subject: Widmung score... From: Mat D. To: jodi Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 22:54:47 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: Jodi, A transcription is an arrangement for piano of a piece of music written for another instrument or voice --- in this case it was a Robert Schumann song. The music is available in (2) versions. Both versions are Liszt transcriptions, but one is more difficult than the other --- both are excellent. I have both, but if you are an intermediate player you will want easier of the two. This version can be found in a book published by ALFRED called 'LISZT-Selected Intermediate To Early Advanced Piano Works' publisher #4887. Mat D.

Subject: Re: This one... From: John D. To: N.P. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 18:46:08 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Are there recordings of this piece? Whose would you recommend? Regards, N.P. --- Mat, Do you have the capability of putting an MP3 out on the net of you playing this piece on your M&H? I'd like to hear it as well. Thanks, John D.

Subject: mp3 won't do my BB much justice, but... From: Mat D. To: John D. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 22:59:20 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: John, that's a good idea, I'll look into doing that --- when I can find time to do that I will. I have actually just begun to explore the this area of audio on the web. Thanks, Mat D.

Subject: Re: mp3 won't do my BB much justice, but... From: John D. To: Mat D. Date Posted: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 12:27:16 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Mat, I'm sure the MP3 won't do your piano much justice, but I'd still like to hear the piece as well as your piano. Additionally, I'd like to know how to create an MP3 - I'll let you tell me how when you find out! I'm thinking of buying a CD burner rather than a minidisk recorder. The reason for this is so that I don't have an additional recording medium. The CD burner I want is $625. Actually, the one I REALLY want is $3500 because it samples 12,000,000/second. I guess I'll have to slum it with the el cheapo model. Anyway, once I get the burner, I'll try and put an MP3 on the net. Later, John D.

Subject: CDR burner info & more on mp3... From: Mat D. To: John D. Date Posted: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 15:42:34 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: John, making an mp3 file is a simple matter of converting a WAV file to mp3 format using readily available software. I am exploring the best way to bring it 'on-line'; there are mp3 sites that allow you to post your own music--one would simply have to link to that location to hear the file. John, when you buy the CD burner, be sure that the finished CD will play on any player; there are (2) types of 'stand-alone' burners (1) consumer grade (probably what you are looking at-requires you to use the more expensive 'consumer' CDR media) & (2) professional grade (use any CDR media). You probably won't be using this burner to create CDR Masters for duplication because if you were, you would definately need the 'pro' model & it would have to be able to burn a 'Redbook' compatible CDR master--many machines won't do that! Just be sure to ask all the questions before you lay your money down. Maybe in a couple weeks I'll record a couple things for mp3--I've gat another 'Granados' piano/cello session coming up soon & I'll do it then while the piano is in perfect tune & set up to record (to record my piano I run an audio snake from my studio to the piano in the living room so it's not something I do every day) Mat D.

Subject: Widmung... From: Mat D. To: Andrew Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 18:17:55 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: Andrew, I loved the piece way before I ever read the lyrics. I saw Van Cliburn play it as an encore & dedicate it to his mother who had recently passed away; it was the most powerful piece he played all night. I went home, bought the music the next day and learned it, but when I read the lyrics I thought it was & still is one of the most beautiful melody/lyrics ever written--The Franz Liszt transcription is gorgeous (as would be expected)! Regards, Mat D.

Subject: Re: Valentines Day - what's your favorite love song? From: Bruce To: John D. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 08:22:56 (EST) Email Address: Peano86381@aol.com Message: With just 3! uhmm....very tough.... No particular order...1. 'Anyone Who Who Had A Heart' Dionne Warwick (Bacharach and David) 2. 'Song For You' The Carpenters (Leon Russell) 3. 'And So It Goes' Billy Joel (Billy Joel)...and I believe I hit 3 decades 60's 70's 80's...Bruce

Subject: Re: Valentines Day - what's your favorite love song? From: Lyn To: Bruce Date Posted: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 06:17:12 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hi Bruce, I forgot about, 'Anyone Who Had a Heart' by Dionne Warwick, that was a GREAT song!!! Thanks for bringing it to mind! Lyn

Subject: Re: Valentines Day - what's your favorite love song? From: David Burton To: John D. Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 23:35:33 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Oh do I Dare? Yeah, I have two, and I'm not particular who does them as there are many decent versions of both of them. They are the two old standards, 'Laura' and 'Stella By Starlight'. Both are among the best written melodies of all time, the first only gets to the key it's written in, in the last measure. The second expresses everything the first one does but adds more aching passion. I really think they don't write em much like this anymore, but that's true about a lot of music.

Subject: Re: Valentines Day - what's your favorite love song? From: Cork To: John D. Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 22:44:09 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: If only three, they'll simply be the first three to pop into mind. I'll give you a variety (and, perhaps, surprise you a bit): 1. They Can't Take That Away from Me -- Gershwin 2. Happy Man -- Chicago 3. Alison -- Elvis Costello (acoustic version) Happy Valentine's Day! Cork

Subject: Re: Valentines Day - what's your favorite love song? From: Lyn To: John D. Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 16:00:47 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hi John, Happy Valentine's Day to you. Hmmmmmm-let's see, my favorite love songs....only three? That's a tuffie, but I'll try! 1) You Are My Special Angel 2) Unchained Melody 3) If I Had You (Alabama) I think I said once before, I like a wide variety of music genres, and country is one of them (or at least 'Alabama')!! Happy Valentine's Day to All! Lyn 1.

Subject: Re: Valentines Day - what's your favorite love song? From: jodi To: John D. Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 14:02:24 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Oooo - I forgot about 'Somewhere' - but I like the recording from the musical (Carol Lawrence, I think) - AWESOME! That would be #1. The next two are only loosely in the category of love songs: 2) would have to be the lullaby I sing my kids every night called 'Close Your Eyes' by James Taylor 3)'Summer, Highland Falls' by Billy Joel (cool music to play on the piano - but hard to play it and sing it at the same time...)

Subject: What type of piano should I buy? HELP!!! From: Nathan To: All Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 14:30:59 (EST) Email Address: piano_search@hotmail.com Message: I'm a 5 year student looking to buy myself a piano. I don't want to spend more that $5,000. I either want a studio or a baby grand. It could be new or used. What brand should I consider? Which type would be better? HELP!!!

Subject: Re: What type of piano should I buy? HELP!!! From: Rich Galassini To: Nathan Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 16:42:23 (EST) Email Address: voce88@aol.com Message: Wow! This would depend on your preference of tone and touch, but I think that you can get 'more' piano than the Yamaha,Kawai,Samick family of mass produced instruments. (not that there is anything wrong with them) For 5Kish, why not check out Petrof, Estonia, or perhaps Ch. Walter? Good Luck, Richard Galassini Cunningham Piano Co 1 800 394 1117

Subject: Re: What type of piano should I buy? HELP!!! From: David Burton To: Nathan Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 15:25:34 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Nathan asks, 'I'm a 5 year student looking to buy myself a piano. I don't want to spend more that $5,000. I either want a studio or a baby grand. It could be new or used. What brand should I consider? Which type would be better? HELP!!!' OK, Nathan, I'm going to answer your question. My qualifications; I have been a semi-advanced amateur classical pianist for about thirty years now, oh I've played my share of jazz, show tunes, rock n roll, blues, etc. too. I have been around lots of pianos and have played so many that I lost count years ago. You have $5K to spend. You say you want an upright or a baby grand. Let's start by saying that a baby grand is a grand piano that's 5' 4' or shorter. I'm adding the extra inch because one of my favorite pianos right now is the 5'4' Estonia grand, but that's about $12K most places. So let's talk reality. Your best buys are probably in the recent used market, especially in upright pianos. What I have argued on this board consistently is that If you can buy a fairly good upright piano and then hire a piano technician to bring it back to optimum for its age and quality, that you'll have a pretty good instrument to work with. Any used piano you consider buying should be looked over by a piano technician BEFORE you fork over any money. You will have to pay for this service but PAY THE MONEY and get the tech to look it over even if he says flat out NO. It will save you hundreds of dollars and lots of aggravation later. I'd probably stay away from any used small grands that sell for under $5K and I'd definitely stay completely away from any too small upright. A spinet is not worth considering at all, ever!. Most people want a piano that's at least 48' tall. Make that a pretty hard and fast rule. There are two or three makes that make acceptable 45' pianos; Charles Walter (I've never seen one, but they are supposedly great), Baldwin, Young Chang, others. Another option for you is to ask a piano tuner / technician to locate a good used upright piano for you that's tall enough and that the technician can make into something really nice over time for you. What do I mean by this? Besides keeping a piano in tune, there are any number of adjustments that a piano goes through as it 'settles' into its environment. The piano technician can make these fine adjustments for you and you will notice that the piano actually improves as you play it. New pianos do this too. Looking for a piano is quite an adventure. There are a lot of bum steers you can get, it's somewhat like shopping for a car. I hope that this forum helps impress on dealers the need to get with it and make quality a major part of their business, including preparing pianos correctly for sale. Do yourself a favor and get Larry Fine's book. You can scan my website, www.geocities.com/vienna/studio/5505, Pianoworld, Amazon or elsewhere else for it. Read it, some things in there have already changed. He updates the book every few years. The biggest changes in new pianos may not concern you yet, such as how vastly the Estonias have improved or the new Samick WSG line of grands. Maybe they will in the future. For now, try and get a good used upright that a piano tech has looked over and that they can and will work on. You might be lucky enough to pick up a good piano for as little as $1,500. If you put $300-$400 into it from a tech, you'll have a nice piano.

Subject: Re: What type of piano should I buy? HELP!!! From: jim To: David Burton Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 16:51:19 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: Nathan -- Occasionally you can buy a good used grand (5'7 or 5'8') for 5k -- you just need to keep a watchful eye in newspapers and on the web. With respect to a new upright, your budget is quite close to a new or recently used 50' Petrof or Weinbach. Otherwise, you should be able to get a newer used, large upright in your price range. Please e-mail me if you want more specific assistance.

Subject: Re: What type of piano should I buy? HELP!!! From: Nathan To: jim Date Posted: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 18:30:05 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: What brand of grand? How old would they usually be for that amout?

Subject: Re: What type of piano should I buy? HELP!!! From: jim To: Nathan Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 21:13:38 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: I would aim for a Knabe or ering or Lester or Steinert or an older European piano (such as the 5'6' Pleyel for sale in Massachusetts now for $5k). You also may be able to find a Baldwin, though I personally prefer the others. The condition and tone of the piano will matter as much as the name. Jim Jim

Subject: Re: What type of piano should I buy? HELP!!! From: Joy To: jim Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 20:08:03 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Nathan, Jim's advice is excellent. We shopped with the same budget and champagne taste non-stop for 2-3 months, went to a lot of stores and people's homes before it narrowed down to a brand-new Weinbach studio model, a 1-year old Petrof 50' (in response to an ad, private sale) and a used Mason & Hamlin (an inside tip via our piano teacher's tuner/tech). Mind you, my son tested many many new pianos in every store we could find. This helps A LOT in narrowing down what you prefer, not to mention all the feedback you get along the way. I kept a notebook, and wrote EVERYTHING that was said about every model we looked at, even wrote the serial numbers down! The piano search was fun and nerve-wracking at the same time. But very rewarding, too. Then I consulted with the seasoned veterans on this forum. We wound up with the M&H -- we brought our own tuner/tech along to give it a thorough examination. Besides, our 2nd and 3rd choices weren't bad, either. Incidentally, my son's other favorite was the Steinway 'D'. ;) Happy shopping, Joy

Subject: Re: What type of piano should I buy? HELP!!! From: Nathan To: jim Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 17:41:57 (EST) Email Address: piana_search@hotmail.com Message: I was looking at 45' studio models by Baldwin and Charles R. Walter. I haven't gotten out and played any yet, but I intend to. Which of these would you suggest? Any from other brands?

Subject: Re: What type of piano should I buy? HELP!!! From: jim To: Nathan Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 11:27:20 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Keep in mind that a piano is not like most of the consumer products you are used to - brand / model / year of manufacture alone aren't enough to decide. Much of the quality of the piano comes from the SPECIFIC pieces of wood in its construction. Each instrument is individual. Two Steinway D's side by side, made in the same factory in the same year, can be quite different. Yes, there are construction differences between brands that matter, but the final choice has to be made by listening to and playing the exact instrument you will buy.

Subject: Re: What type of piano should I buy? HELP!!! From: jim To: Nathan Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 20:00:09 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: For my money, I would buy the Petrof or Weinbach in the price range that you are looking. To my taste, they have much nicer sounds -- and are taller -- than the pianos that you are considering (which I believe sound a bit thin). You also could look at the Yamaha U-1 (if you got a really good deal.) The used piano market is the place where you can get the most piano for your money, however.

Subject: Re: What type of piano should I buy? HELP!!! From: ryan To: jim Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 11:30:40 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: The Charles Walter is a much better piano than the Baldwin, in my opinion. Interesting that Jim thinks the CW vertical sounds thin. I really liked the tone of the Walters I played, and didn't find them to be thin. Voicing probably plays a big part here. The CW scale design is interesting in that he places the bridge really close to the edge of the sound-board to maximize string length. The strings in the 45' Walter are as long as a 48' Petrof, and probably not far from the 52' petrof. Placing the bridge so close to the edge of the sound-board may sacrifice some resonance, though. The build quality and workmanship is probably superior to Petrof. At any rate, you really have to get out and try these pianos and decide for yourself which one you like best. Ryan

Subject: Re: What type of piano should I buy? HELP!!! From: jim To: ryan Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 22:08:10 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: This is what makes piano buying fun (and frustrating). I have not heard a Walter that sounds as sweet as a properly prepped Petrof or Weinbach. To each their own. Jim

Subject: There's an article on PIANO TUNING in today's NY Times. From: Joy To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 16:34:24 (EST) Email Address: Joy Message: In the 'Circuits' section, there's an article on the devices used today to tune pianos -- specifically software for laptops vs. a portable mini-device that's more commonly used vs doing it by ear. You can probably view it online at the NY Times website FREE if you do it this week. Joy

Subject: Re: There's an article on PIANO TUNING in today's NY Times. From: Tread To: Joy Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 20:11:58 (EST) Email Address: STreadwe@aol.com Message: For those who are interested in playing around with this, there's a shareware tuning program available (TuneLab 97)that you can download from www.wwnet.net/~rscott/. You'll need a computer with a sound card and microphone. I seem to recall that it has the capability for different types of tunings (non-equal temperament).

Subject: Re: There's an article on PIANO TUNING in today's NY Times. From: Andrew To: Joy Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:47:28 (EST) Email Address: andrew.gan@prodigy.net Message: I bumped into this article on another site that I frequented. Ralph posted the whole article so it will not disappear after a while. Here is the WEB URL: http://www.sitetronics.com/board/ Go to the first forum 'Classical Now'. Look for the thread 'Everything you want to know about piano tuning'. BTW, lots of extremely knowledgeable classical 'nuts' post many messages every day back and forth. It's a lively site. Have fun! Andrew

Subject: Historical Temperament Debate From: Cork To: Joy Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 17:58:38 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: For the Times, it's actually well-done. A bit on the RCT and the SAT III, the two leaders in tuning aids, and then a good quick overview of the historical temperaments debate. I've been tempted to try a non-equal temperament, but the advice I've received suggests the historical temperaments would not be particularly useful for Late Romantics, Gershwin, Porter, etc. that comprise much of my favorite music. Anyone out there tried a non-equal temperament on their piano? Cork

Subject: Re: Historical Temperament Debate From: jodi To: Cork Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 18:25:47 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I think I have - Chris Finger Pianos had one of the Bosendorfers tuned the way that it would have been when Chopin was composing. (or something like that) - with some things in true tune (I know I'm not using the correct terms) - so that there were really pure chords in some keys, and sort of off ones in others. Anyway - I didn't really like it all that much... (and I play a lot of Chopin) Anyone else?

Subject: BB FROM NAMM From: kenny To: joy/Johnathan Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 11:05:44 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Joy/Johnathan I just bought the satin ebony BB at your local dealer. You may want to go down to check it out before it is shipped. It's particularly nice as it is the BB selected by M+H to represent their company to the world at the NAMM show in Los Angeles this month. Consequently, it got some beautiful prep at the factory and the show. Now my joy is to spend the rest of my life developing my musical spirit and technique to realize the enormous potential waiting in this magnificent instrument.

Subject: Re: BB FROM NAMM From: Rich Galassini To: kenny Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 17, 2000 at 08:03:55 (EST) Email Address: voce88@aol.com Message: Kenny - I played the piano that I think you purchased, and I must say that you got a fine instrument. (Although i am partial to the BBs on my showroom floor right now. Richard Galassini Cunningham Piano Co Phila.,Pa. 1 800 394 1117

Subject: WOW, another BB owner-congrats! nt From: Mat D. To: kenny Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 18:06:26 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: ...

Subject: Re: BB FROM NAMM & Artistic Pianos From: Joy To: kenny Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 14:35:49 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Congratulations Kenny!!! Were you the one who came in one Sunday with a small stack of well-worn Schirmer books and played Chopin on the BB with mahogany/ebony keys? What an aurally rich & colorful piano the BB is. Joy

Subject: Re: BB FROM NAMM & Artistic Pianos From: kenny To: Joy Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 16:20:44 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Joy No, that wasn't me or my piano, I got the satin ebony one. Now I'm going to have a M+H BB and a 1968 Baldwin R in my livingroom. I hope the R sells quickly, I need the $$. May you and your son have many happy years on your M+H. kenny

Subject: Re: BB FROM NAMM & Artistic Pianos From: kenny To: Joy Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 16:14:23 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Re: BB FROM NAMM From: Bill To: kenny Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 13:57:11 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Would you mind sharing with us the price you paid for the BB. Enjoy and congrats!!

Subject: Re: BB FROM NAMM From: Richard To: kenny Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 13:31:38 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Congratulations on your purchase of the BB from NAMM. I heard Steve Allen & several other artists playing it. I tried to buy it there, but it was previously sold to another dealer. Enjoy, it's a great piano.

Subject: Re: BB FROM NAMM From: kenny To: Richard Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 16:47:49 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I wish I could have gone to the show. How did they acoustically isolate all the booths? Did you have to listen to 70 pianos and 200 guitars simultaneously? How many M+H BBs did they have? As? uprights?

Subject: Mason & Hamlin Dealer in Boston? From: jodi To: All Date Posted: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 11:56:11 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Does anyone know a M & H dealer in the Boston area? Are there several? I have a friend who is looking, and I'm trying to talk him into trying at an 'A'...

Subject: Re: Mason & Hamlin Dealer in Boston? From: jim To: jodi Date Posted: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 14:56:36 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: The name of the dealer is Piano Mill (owned by Jim Hamilton). It is a terrific place to buy a piano -- no pressure, prices posted on the pianos, etc. It is located on Needham Street just inside Route 128. Jim

Subject: Thanks!- I forgot about the Piano Mill (no message attached) From: jodi To: jim Date Posted: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 18:13:28 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Re: Mason & Hamlin Dealer in Boston? From: John D. To: jodi Date Posted: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 13:13:23 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Jodi, Have your friend visit the factory in Haverhill where the showroom is on the top floor of the factory - or at least there was a showroom on the top floor of the factory back in 1991 when I was looking at Falcone's. I got a nice tour of the factory and quite an education in piano making. John D.

Subject: Thanks, I will! From: jodi To: John D. Date Posted: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 14:03:44 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Re: Mason & Hamlin Dealer in Boston? From: William To: jodi Date Posted: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 12:41:16 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: call Cecil Ramirez at M&H 800-566-3472 for a listing of dealers

Subject: Help for Piano World... and starting new threads: From: John D. To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 10:30:39 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hi all, Not to criticize anyone, but lately the threads for certain posts have been getting very long and are often back and forth conversations between two people. I like to look at all the posts but find it time consuming to click on each post. Therefore, I'd like to make a suggestion to Frank Baxter of Piano World that there be a 'Comment Mode' for a particular thread or post. 'Comment Mode' would allow back and forth conversation between all the participants under one post. If you are having a "private" discussion with someone about one of their posts, you could "comment" on it rather than creating a new thread. What does everyone think? Thanks, John D.

Subject: Re: Help for Piano World... and starting new threads: From: jodi To: John D. Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 12:46:44 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: This sounds like a good idea. Would there be a way to know that there is a new comment under that particular post? It does get frustrating - clicking on all the new ones - especially when my computer gets SLOW. It also helps sometimes to start new threads when the discussion has strayed from the original message. I certainly wouldn't want to discourage the 'back and forth' between individuals - thats part of what makes this forum feel like home.

Subject: Re: Help for Piano World... and starting new threads: From: John D. To: jodi Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 13:00:33 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Jodi, Just reading thru the threads under Frank Baxters' 'HELP' post, it seems the discussion gradually moves away from the original topic. Then it is almost too late to start a new post. Nevertheless, as you pointed out, the 'back and forth' is a good thing. So if anyone wants to stray off the topic of a post, add a comment to that post instead of making a new post. I'd like to suggest an 'eye-catcher', such as an asterisk preceding the posts where new comments have been added. Any more ideas are welcome. Thanks, John D.

Subject: Re: Help for Piano World... and starting new threads: From: dssr To: John D. Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 13:21:56 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Comments section would be nice. A time/date stamp indicating when the most recent comments were posted would be helpful to everyone. I do not know how the post would know whether or not an individual reader has read the post. The word 'Comments' along with the time/date stamp would indicate to all that an individual message has comments and when the most recent comments have been added. FWIW. Dave.

Subject: Another idea cocerning long threads... From: Mat D. To: dssr Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 13:47:28 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: John has addressed an important issue here. The threads are getting long & tedious. One way to help with this is to encourage posters to write in a new 'heading' in the 'subject' box-(a heading should describe your new post ideas) just as I have done here. This is done out of courtesy to all visitors & will save many lots of time. Mat D.

Subject: Re: I second Mat D.'s suggestion From: Angelique To: Mat D. Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 14:00:02 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Another great suggestion from Mat D. It would save lots of time.

Subject: This time I remembered to write a new heading. I usually forget... From: jodi To: Mat D. Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 13:57:32 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Yes, that would work too, and often I think of that but then press 'post reply' out of habit, and it doesn't get done... Are we just being 'chattier' than before - is that why the threads are getting longer? Dssr has a point - there wouldn't have to be anything about who or how many comment on a post, just that they are NEW since you last read the post. Jodi

Subject: Re: This time I remembered to write a new heading. I usually forget... From: John D. To: jodi Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 14:37:04 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Mat's idea is a good one, but as Jodi points out, people often forget. But aside from that, my big problem with the posts is that you have to click on each one individually. Look at the post 'Help' from Piano World, the topics go from 'Help' to 'old eyes' to 'frowning face' to ''bumming in Europe'. If there were simply posts related to suggestions for Piano World along with a comments section (one click) that talked about 'old eyes, frowning face, etc...' that would minimize the number of clicks greatly. I also like dssr's suggestion. I don't believe it would be too hard to 'unasterisk' the comments section once a user has read the comments. This would be accomplished similarly to how messages are highlighted after you've read them. Of course, since I don't have to do the programming, it shouldn't be ANY problem (haha)! Later, John D.

Subject: Other Message Engines From: Cork To: John D. Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 18:26:33 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The problem is the Paradise message system. Our esteemed Webmaster would need to switch to a new system; each has its benefits and drawbacks. One very efficient system is employed by another site I occasionally visit: www.combatsim.com Check the forum system it employs. The negative is that it does not reveal the authors of the comments until you are in the thread. The positive is that it tracks the number of replies, and whether any have been added since you last read the thread. Oh, and Jodi: the threads here are getting longer because we have so many more contributors than just a few months ago, and we all have relaxed enough that we seem to feel safer in going off-topic. Regards, Cork

Subject: I pledge to keep it short & always write a new header From: Joy To: Cork Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 19:59:59 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I think that's one of the best things about this particular site: Friendly smart folks with a common interest and a good sense of humor. And it's FUN talking about pianos, piano-playing and music, not to mention the comraderie & trust among the returnees, FWIW. Joy PS: I'm still reeling over Jim D's confession he is a Cher fan, but his secret is safe with me.

Subject: Cher From: John D. To: Joy Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 12:15:44 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hi Joy, It's me, John D., who is the Cher fan. Hey, you can't argue with success; she had the number one song for 1999. This weekend I had a gig at a private party and decided not to gradually change song categories but rip from one to the other. At one point I played 'My Funny Valentine' (the old standard), followed by 'Brown Sugar' (Rolling Stones) and then the ultimate Cher song 'The Way of Love' - complete with Liberace flourishes. I passed on the candelabra and the sequinned outfit! I know, I'm weird. John D.

Subject: Re: Cher & your gig From: Joy To: John D. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 14:57:51 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: You do 'Brown Sugar' on the piano? Cool. You sing it too? Joy

Subject: Re: Cher & your gig From: John D. To: Joy Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 17:01:21 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hi Joy, No, I and Hillary Clinton (if you're from NY you may have seen the commercials) cannot sing AT ALL. I wish I could but everytime I make an attempt, my cat runs under the bed and covers her ears! John D.

Subject: Re:Non-Singing Hilary & 'Brown Sugar' From: Joy To: John D. Date Posted: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 00:22:59 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: John D, I must say one of the many little things I do miss about NYC (I'm from the Bronx ) are the commercials -- yes they run better TV commercials there than they do here in sleepy ol' San Diego. I notice this everytime I visit there. I enjoyed that old ad campaign where they had a motley assortment of Broadway celebrities sing ''I Love New York...' Uh-oh, that's not what HILARY does, is it? Yikes.... Joy PS: So you have your own piano arrangement of 'Brown Sugar'? Perhaps you can put it on MP3 for the rest of us to hear?

Subject: Re: Re:Non-Singing Hilary & 'Brown Sugar' From: John D. To: Joy Date Posted: Wed, Feb 16, 2000 at 12:33:37 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hi Joy, Hillary's commercial is supposed to make her appear to be more 'real' - that's what her campaign people say. In it, she mentions that she makes a mean tossed salad and also says that she can't sing. I believe it's her mother and a friend of her who both say 'you DO NOT want to hear her sing'. It's kind of funny. I do have my own arrangement of 'Brown Sugar' although I pretty much stole it from The Stones. It's a lot of fun to play. As I said in a thread above, I am looking into buying a CD burner which (I think) will enable me to put MP3's on the net. However, I am still in the looking stage. Later, John D.

Subject: Re: John D. From: Cork To: John D. Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 22:47:14 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: 'I know, I'm weird.' John D. That's why we love you, John. You fit in so well! Cork

Subject: Rust on strings From: N.P. To: All Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 15:40:13 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hi everyone, I just noticed some rust on the strings of our piano today. It's not much but is it normal to have some on supposedly brand new strings? Should I try to clean it or should I leave it for the tech when he comes to tune in May. What should I do to prevent it in the future? Thanks. N.P.

Subject: Re: Rust on strings From: Granholm Bros To: N.P. Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 19:43:09 (EST) Email Address: gbros@wanweb.net Message: Hi everyone, I just noticed some rust on the strings of our piano today. It's not much but is it normal to have some on supposedly brand new strings? Should I try to clean it or should I leave it for the tech when he comes to tune in May. What should I do to prevent it in the future? Thanks. N.P. --- Rust on new wire? Highly unusual. Don't try to clean it yourself--show it to the piano tech when he comes to work on the piano, and ask him about what to do. A new piano or a newly restrung piano should show NO rust on the wire or tuning pins. The way to prevent rust occurring, of course, is to keep the piano's environmental humidity under control. You don't mention where you live, or how the piano was shipped to you, or where it's been. Somewhere, though, it sat or is sitting in a high-humidity environment. Once the rust is on the wire and pins, it could be the cause of problems down the line. In a serious case, it will cause strings to break when their tension is changed. John Granholm Granholm Bros Piano Roseburg OR

Subject: Re: Rust on strings From: N.P. To: Granholm Bros Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 21:22:20 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Mr. Granholm, Thank you for responding to my question. I live in Minnesota where there's high humidity in the summer and dry indoor air from heating in the winter. We got this piano last September. As far as we know it had been in the shop of the local rebuilder for two years being worked on prior to our purchase. It was supposed to have been restrung. There are four wires in the bass section that have slight rust(so slight that if you're not looking for it you won't see it) on them where they are coiled around the tuning pins and on the other end after they cross the bridge. All the pins and other strings are clean. We installed a Dampp-chaser when the heating season started and try to keep the humidity in the house at 40 degree with the humidifier in the furnace. When summer comes, the central air will be on on high humidity days. Did I miss any thing else that I should be doing? Might these strings be of poor quality if they rust so soon? Oh dear, I don't even want to think about it. Regards, N.P.

Subject: Re: Rust on strings From: Granholm Bros To: N.P. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 19:11:48 (EST) Email Address: gbros@wanweb.net Message: Mr. Granholm, Thank you for responding to my question. I live in Minnesota where there's high humidity in the summer and dry indoor air from heating in the winter. We got this piano last September. As far as we know it had been in the shop of the local rebuilder for two years being worked on prior to our purchase. It was supposed to have been restrung. There are four wires in the bass section that have slight rust(so slight that if you're not looking for it you won't see it) on them where they are coiled around the tuning pins and on the other end after they cross the bridge. All the pins and other strings are clean. We installed a Dampp-chaser when the heating season started and try to keep the humidity in the house at 40 degree with the humidifier in the furnace. When summer comes, the central air will be on on high humidity days. Did I miss any thing else that I should be doing? Might these strings be of poor quality if they rust so soon? Oh dear, I don't even want to think about it. Regards, N.P. --- I think your humidity controls will be adequate, and I wouldn't lose sleep over this. What most likely happened is that in the course of this two-year job, the rebuilder restrung the piano, got busy with other jobs, and stored your piano in an unheated/uncooled space long enough for it to develop the rust spots. If your descriptions are accurate, it's more than likely that this will never be a problem for you. John Granholm Granholm Bros Piano Roseburg OR

Subject: Re: Rust on strings From: N.P. To: Granholm Bros Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 19:55:57 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thank you ever so much. You put my mind at ease. Regards, N.P.

Subject: C. Walter vs. Story & Clark From: Nathan To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 17:38:10 (EST) Email Address: piano_search Message: Would you reccomend the Charles Walter model 1500 or the Story and Clark church/school model? Are they priced about the same? I'm guessing around $5000, right? Are there any other brands that I should look at for this amount of money? Thank-you in advance.

Subject: Re: C. Walter vs. Story & Clark From: Rich Galassini To: Nathan Date Posted: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 18:32:17 (EST) Email Address: voce88 Message: Would you reccomend the Charles Walter model 1500 or the Story and Clark church/school model? Are they priced about the same? I'm guessing around $5000, right? Are there any other brands that I should look at for this amount of money? Thank-you in advance. --- i would definitely say that the Walter is a better instrument under heavy play. I am sure that the church would be happy with it. Richard Galassini Cunningham Piano Co Phila.,Pa. 1 800-394-1117

Subject: VOCE88 From: Cork To: Rich Galassini Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 16:11:55 (EST) Email Address: cvdh@my-Deja.com Message: Alright! Great to have you join the group, Rich! I've always enjoyed your comments on rmmp, and am delighted to see that you're posting here now as well. Welcome! Cork Van Den Handel

Subject: Re: VOCE88 From: Rich Galassini To: Cork Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 16:27:37 (EST) Email Address: voce88@aol.com Message: Alright! Great to have you join the group, Rich! I've always enjoyed your comments on rmmp, and am delighted to see that you're posting here now as well. Welcome! Cork Van Den Handel --- Thank you for the warm welcome, Cork. I hope that I don't step on anyone's toes, here. I have heard good things about this site from a few people and, I must say, they are correct! Good group of folks. Richard Galassini Cunningham piano Co 1 800 394 1117

Subject: Re: C. Walter vs. Story & Clark From: Nathan To: Rich Galassini Date Posted: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 20:03:07 (EST) Email Address: piano_search@hotmail.com Message: Sorry if I was unclear...It's not for a church, or a school, but for home use, but it will get heavy use. I'll spend an hour or more each day at it. Thanks.

Subject: LOVELY OLD STANDARDS From: OLD_STEVE To: David Burton Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 12:48:41 (EST) Email Address: sgzorb@worldnet.att.net Message: I have to agree with you on your choices of great (I guess) love ballads. However I seem to recall another one but do not know who penned it. (to my ear it say Ellington) The tune is Invatation. Have you ever heard it. I have never seen it in any fake books either. Any way any information would be appreciated. Steve

Subject: Re: LOVELY OLD STANDARDS From: John D. To: OLD_STEVE Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 13:04:44 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Some of the songs weren't what I would call true 'love' songs, but they were songs about love. Someone mentioned 'And So It Goes' by Billy Joel. I REALLY like that song, but it's SO sad. Unfortunately, I do not know 'Invitation' but have been becoming fond of the old standards: 'Isn't it Romantic', 'Moonlight in Vermont', 'My Romance', 'Something Wonderful', 'When Your Lover Has Gone', 'Love Is a Many Splendid Thing', 'My Funny Valentine'... I could go on and on. As David Burton says 'they don't write 'em like that anymore'. John D.

Subject: need advice-hammer and string alignment From: Murray To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 11:18:45 (EST) Email Address: mlphill@mb.sympatico.ca Message: Hi I'm looking for some advice out there, especially from anyone with some piano tech background. We bought a new upright piano late last summer and have been very happy with it. The dealer/tech we bought it from gave it its free tuning before Christmas and then last week we had a well respected independent tech from the area tune it and look it over. He said he was impressed with the sound and construction of the piano except that in the case of a few of the keys the hammer was not contacting all of the strings evenly. He said it could be easily corrected (he didn't have time in his schedule that day for any more than a tuning)by bending the offending string outwards until it evened up with the others. I quess what I would like to know from anyone is: 1)Is this something that can sometimes occur in an upright piano that is usually corrected by prep at the factory or dealer 2)Is this the proper method for correcting the problem (the tech said it is something he often has to do on grands) Thanks in advance for any help. Have found this sight to be a wealth of knowledge since discovering it last spring Murray

Subject: Re: need advice-hammer and string alignment From: John D. To: Murray Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 11:48:13 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I am not a tech, but do know that my tech almost always 'pulls' strings (on my grand) to align them with the hammers. However he 'pulls' the strings so that the hammer does not hit one string before it hits the others. When the strings are out of alignment in this manner, the note gets a kind of wirey/twangy sound. This is very common - at least in my experience. However, there is a second possibility where the hammer is too far left or right of the strings. In that case, I'm not sure that 'pulling' the strings is a good idea. As I said, I'm not a tech, but I think it would be better to re-align the hammer rather than pulling the strings. John D.

Subject: Re: need advice-hammer and string alignment From: Murray To: John D. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 12:23:35 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I am not a tech, but do know that my tech almost always 'pulls' strings (on my grand) to align them with the hammers. However he 'pulls' the strings so that the hammer does not hit one string before it hits the others. When the strings are out of alignment in this manner, the note gets a kind of wirey/twangy sound. This is very common - at least in my experience. However, there is a second possibility where the hammer is too far left or right of the strings. In that case, I'm not sure that 'pulling' the strings is a good idea. As I said, I'm not a tech, but I think it would be better to re-align the hammer rather than pulling the strings. John D. --- John D. Thanks for your response. My problem is like your first suggestion except that in most of the cases the hammer is stricking two of the strings evenly but the third is either not struck at all or only very softly. I guess I was concerned that this might be some real structural problem with the piano. He showed me how to check the problem by lifting off the dampers and holding the hammer against the strings while I plucked them individually. Most are out only a little but those that are out more do explain some of the concerns I had about a few of the notes. Thanks again Murray

Subject: Re: need advice-hammer and string alignment From: ryan To: Murray Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 12:46:27 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: String leveling is a good thing to do, and it's good that your tech checks this. The string only has to move a fraction of an inch to be out of alignment, so it's actually not that uncommon to have to re-align the strings. I wouldn't think that this is an indicator of a structural problem. When the strings are not level, the hammer strikes them at different times and they vibrate out of phase, which can make the note sound bad. The strings may also have to be aligned with respect to the hammer, which means they need to be moved slightly to the left or right. This can be more common in uprights, wich use pressure bars instead of agraffes to keep the strings aligned. Again, it only takes a fraction of an inch for the string to be considered out of alignment. Here I believe it is better to pull the string into alignment rather than to try to move the hammer. Hammers can move in complex arcs and you really want to make sure they don't collide with each other, which means leave them alone when they are working properly:)

Subject: Re: need advice-hammer and string alignment From: Murray To: ryan Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 12:56:46 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thank for your response Ryan. The problem seems to be only in the string alignment and not in the left or right alignment with the hammers. We have a Heintzman piano made by Bohemia piano (same as Reiger-Kloss) and they have full agraffes so hopefully that prevents this problem.

Subject: Re: need advice-hammer and string alignment From: John D. To: Murray Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 12:45:27 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The first problem I described, which you stated is your problem, is not a structural problem - it's very common. Very common certainly in grands and I see no reason why it wouldn't be common in uprights as well. I've owned 3 grands, Yamaha, Steinway and Falcone - the tech uses/used the method your tech described to determine the strings that had to be pulled. Good luck, although it sounds like you have a non-problem and the right tech! John D.

Subject: Thanks From: Murray To: John D. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 12:58:45 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Piano for my niece From: Ben To: All Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 03:51:16 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Do you guys think that a grand piano might be 'too much' for my 14yr old niece? He's taking his Grade 7 soon and i hope to get him a baby grand for his birthday. I've been thinking whether getting a grand might be 'too much' for him or not. I've talked to the Petrof dealer and he can't give me 14k for a Petrof V. Is 15k a little bit too much compared to Kawai's RX-1 which cost $22,000? For the uprights, is $14,000 to much for Petrof 131?(All prices in S'pore $) The U5 had a very nice sound but i'll still prefer the Petrof. If i get the Petrof, what preps must i do to get in in top shape? I've heard that i need to do some preps to get it back in the right shape. What are the things must i do? Thank You (Darn! Can't find A dealer that carries Sauter)

Subject: Ben: Estonia is 5'4' From: jodi To: Ben Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 10:31:38 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The Estonia that I played was 5'4'. (Model #163) They also have a 5'6' (#168), a 6'3' and 9'. The 5'4' is definately worth a look. Jodi

Subject: Find out models of Estonias available in S'pore From: Joy To: jodi Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 22:14:44 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: It'll be interesting to find out what Ben's Estonia dealer has on his showroom floor, and what the prices are. And then, what his nephew thinks of them. Joy PS: Happy New Year! Sounds like you are preparing for a feast! ;)

Subject: Re: Find out models of Estonias available in S'pore From: David Burton To: Joy Date Posted: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 11:16:14 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: About Estonia Joy remarks, 'It'll be interesting to find out what Ben's Estonia dealer has on his showroom floor, and what the prices are. And then, what his nephew thinks of them.' Well Joy, I suppose it is theoretically possible to make an Estonia sound and feel like an average Samick, but I doubt it. Here are some ways to describe an Estonia. First and foremost, even more than with the Petrof, one knows this is a fine European piano. The 5'4' sounds BIG in ways that are surprising for its size. And they don't play like a Samick either, more like a Bechstein; the action is solid but not heavy. Well, it's Renner, so one could make it theoretically as heavy as one wanted. Some have reported light regulations. I didn't notice it for that; about the same as the Petrofs I played. In sound, Estonias are somewhere between the Mason & Hamlin and the Bechstein. The Mason & Hamlins and Steinways were very close with the M & H's a bit brighter and capable of a real 'mighty' sound, especially below middle c. But like Steinway, Mason & Hamlin when played at piano or pianissiomo are very quiet and restrained. I admire restraint in the sounds of pianos at these volumes. Many poorer pianos are overly loud. The Estonias had this restraint too with a beautiful scaling below middle c that really reminded me of a larger piano, so much so that I sat there and played a few pieces before I realized I was playing a 'baby grand'. The 5'6' may be in limited production. The next one up I saw was the 6'3' which was one of the pianos of my dreams, currently selling for $15K from Beethoven Pianos in New York, contact Carl Demler, tell him I sent you. They ship anywhere in the world and their prices on Estonias probably can't be beat since they are such a large factor in Estonia's retail business. Look, for my money this is one of the best deals on the finest of pianos currently available. No one knows for how long this can go on? I think the prices of an Estonia will have to go up simply as demand rises. And it will. At these prices, many schools and conservatories can afford to pick them up so they may show up more places. What's interesting is that Estonia Pianos actually figures as a major export by the tiny Balkan state of Estonia, and that they've been making pianos there, as a national enterprise, for nearly 200 years.

Subject: Re: What should i do? From: Ben To: Joy Date Posted: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 03:32:48 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The Estonia dealer ( His shop also carried many other brands like Schu;ze-Pollman, Samick, Schimmels...)They specialized in Schulze Pollman pianos and unfortunetly,they did not have any Estonias on the showroom floor. ( My nephew was really dissapointed). They actually had a 6'3 grand and a 5'4 grand a month back but they had been shipped to the buyer. The new shipment would be coming sometime next month. However, if i'm impatient,i could actually book one and wait for the piano to come together with trhe next shipment. My Nephew and i wanted to try it before we bought it so we reserved a 5'4 model for S$22,000.( Do you think it is reasonable?I did not negoiate so much because it would be quite embarssing if he could give me a discount and realising that i did not want it anymore.) Do you think that i should wait for the new shipment to come so that i can try it or book the piano now and have it ship later? The Kawai dealer is telling me that i better book fast before the Yen increases. What should i do??

Subject: Re: What should i do? From: jodi To: Ben Date Posted: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 10:12:27 (EST) Email Address: jodi@radon.chem.uidaho.eud Message: You absolutely need to see it before you buy. Don't let the dealers scare you into anything different. AND - if you can (I can't remember if you have found a tech or not) pay an independent tech to look it over as soon as it gets in. I would still try to negotiate on the price. What is S$22,000 in US Dollars? I think you can get them for under $15K here (does anybody else know?) Don't get impatient about this purchase! You have lots of time. They tried to tell me the Petrof prices were going to go up too - but they didn't.

Subject: Re: What should i do? From: Ben To: jodi Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 01:39:34 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: In US Dollars, it's around 17k. I already have a reliable and friendly Piano Tech on stand by. We will go back to the Petrof dealer so that my Piano Tech can get the Petrof back to top-form. ( When i went there. it was slightly out of tune) I wanted to know how a properly prepared Petrof sound s like after hearing all the good raves about the 'REAL' Petrof. The Schulze Pollmann was simply beautiful. Very fast Renner action that was light and nimble. They had the 116 and 126 model. The cabinetry was very impresssive. My Nephew loved the sound. It was very different from Kawai. It had the Italian sound. It was retailing at US$7500. If i were to go for uprights, i would definetly consider Schuzle Pollmann as my 1st choice.Mean while, i'm busy making trips to every piano store that i can find in S'pore. The hunt continues... Pss.( Would anyone care to join me for a new year feast? I couldn't get the butter cookies right though) :) Happy New Year!!

Subject: Happy New Year to you too! From: Joy To: Ben Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 19:44:03 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Ben says: 'Pss.( Would anyone care to join me for a new year feast? I couldn't get the butter cookies right though) Happy New Year!! ' Wish we could!!!! I'll bet the rest of the feast was delicious, too. Keep us posted on your piano quest. Interesting to know what's available in other countries, not to mention how they feel and sound over there! Good luck and prosperity to you too, Joy __\\\;)///__

Subject: Re: Happy New Year to you too! From: Ben To: Joy Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 03:36:44 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Too bad you guys couldn't join me for the feast. ;) ( I'm not a really good cook though, i ruined the fish dish because i forgotten to take it out to thaw it!! My Guest was teasing me throughout the whole meal. How embarssing) Anyway, my Nephew decided to take a break from the piano hunt to study for his upcoming test. I hope that right after his test finishes, the new shipment of Estonias would be in. Thanks for all the help and support. Wishing you guys a happy and prosperous new year.( Do you guys back there celebrate the lunar new year? I'm curious! )

Subject: WE Do Lunar New Year From: Joy To: Ben Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 11:57:15 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: We celebrate at our household every year. I put more emphasis on it this year because I was tired of Y2k getting all the attention. Besides, any holiday that celebrates good food is the best! Joy PS: Do start a new thread when you and your nephew look at the Estonias. ;)

Subject: Re: What should i do? From: David Burton To: Ben Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 13:57:10 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Ben says, 'The Schulze Pollmann was simply beautiful. Very fast Renner action that was light and nimble. They had the 116 and 126 model. The cabinetry was very impresssive. My Nephew loved the sound. It was very different from Kawai. It had the Italian sound. It was retailing at US$7500. If i were to go for uprights, i would definetly consider Schuzle Pollmann as my 1st choice.Mean while, i'm busy making trips to every piano store that i can find in S'pore.' That was my impression too, frankly my pick for the best upright piano for the money right now is the SP 126. You really need to have it in full prep to appreciate it. I'm also quite fond of their 6' grand piano, the 190, a real classic also reasonably priced, at the moment.

Subject: Be there soon as the shipment is IN. From: Joy To: jodi Date Posted: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 18:42:11 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I agree with Jodi. Don't let the salesperson pressure you. I don't think there'll be a stampede for Estonias when there are so many Yamahas there. I'm sure the salesperson won't forget to contact you either, if he's good. It's great you have a piano tech ready and standing by. Did you say they have Schulze-Pollman grands on the sales floor? If so, did you and your nephew try them out? Nice pianos. Good luck. Joy

Subject: Ignore this message, please. From: Joy To: jodi Date Posted: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 18:36:19 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Never mind! This was an error. :) ;) ;) Joy

Subject: Re: Piano for my niece From: jim To: Ben Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 18:32:42 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: Ben -- If your niece is a serious student -- and it sounds like she is -- you would not go wrong buying her a grand piano. You can purchase the 5'8' Petrof in the 15k range, and the 6'4' master series Petrof in the 19k range. If it were my money, I would look at rebuilt Steinway Ms or Mason and Hamlin As. They will hold their value and some have an extraordinary tone and touch. More importantly, I would get your niece involved in the process. Buying a piano is an intensely subjective experience and should not be done blind; remember, she will be using this piano for many years. If you are committed to a new piano, let me know if you need assistance finding good pricing. Finally, if you go the upright route, you easily can get a 52' Petrof for under $10k. $14 k is more than a little high. Jim

Subject: Re: Piano for my niece From: Joy To: jim Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 03, 2000 at 01:49:07 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hi Jim, Ben lives in Singapore. He mentioned in an earlier post his dealer would have to order the Petrof first, and that neither his niece (or nephew?)nor he would be able to test-play one (right, Ben?). Unless it's OK with the dealer for Ben to change his mind if he doesn't like the piano. On top of that he said there are very few piano techs in Singapore. I wouldn't buy a piano I couldn't test first. That narrows it down to the Kawai -- which they DO sell there, yes? -- right away. And of course, the omnipresent Yamaha. Besides, there's that VERY HOT and HUMID climate to consider. I forget if Singapore has monsoons. . . . Joy

Subject: Re: Piano for my niece From: Ben To: Joy Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 03:02:47 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Joy, Great you understood my situation. Yes, i tried out the RX-1 but the dealer did not have the 5'8 Petrof. He only had the 5'3 baby grand. It sounded great but i would like to order the 5'8 model. I've not tried it out yet but the dealer assured me that i would definetly like it. I'm not very confident because he would not let me return the piano for another one if i'm not satisfied. My niece liked the Petrof 5'3 baby grand better than the RX-1 . He wanted something bigger which he hopes for a 5'8 Petrof. Can't get the dealer to let me change my mind if i didn't like the piano. I would not want to take this risk. I'll never get the Yamaha, except for the S4 (price is wayyy to high). Knocked Petrof 131 out of my list because my niece wanted a PSO.I'm not considering any uprights since he wanted something that looked like a grand. And try checking out the used piano market here in Singapore: Private owners are in fact TRYING to make a profit out the used piano. And for used and new Mason and HAMLINS, it's pratically impossible to find one here. Impossible. I could actually get one shipped here but i don't think that i want to take so much trouble to fly all the way to australia to try it and finding out that i didn't like it after all.. I will keep you guys informed of the progress. Thank you

Subject: Re: Piano for my niece From: Andrew To: Ben Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 09:01:55 (EST) Email Address: andrew.gan@prodigy.net Message: Ben, Responding to the bottom part of your note, I have yet to meet one pianist who DISlikes Mason & Hamlin after he/she ever lays the hands on a prepared M&H. In other words, I seriously doubt if you choose to fly to Australia to try out M&H and come home unsatisfied. Andrew

Subject: Re: Piano for my niece From: Joy To: Andrew Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 20:57:10 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I must say that's what's great about M&H pianos. They are so solidly built, reliable and what a sound. Heavier than most other pianos i understand, and they have that famous metal radial reinforcement, which you can see if you bend underneath the piano -- there's a diagram of it in Larry Fine's book. The upright has a horizontal metal bar in the back. They have them in Australia? Hmmm.. Need a vacation? Joy PS: A Petrof baby grand doesn't sound like a bad alternative. I think it's the only baby grand (aside from the new Estonia) that most of the folks here approved of. The exception, if I'm not mistaken. Nice piano.

Subject: Re: Piano for my niece From: Ben To: Joy Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 23:36:03 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks alot. I've heard much raves about Mason And Hamlins but i'll guess i'll have to get my aunt who lives there to look out for a used one there. She knows how to play the piano, but she is completly new to the instrument. Are there any few pointers to look out for when getting a used Mason And Hamlin? WHat about comparing them with the Steinways which they have a dealer here in S;pore? I've not tried their 5'3 baby grand. What would you get if you were given a choice of a Boston baby grand, a Kawai Rx-1, a used Mason And Hamlin.( Do they manufacture 5'3 grands?), a Yamaha C-1 , and a Steinway Baby grand? What are the differneces between M$H and Steinway? they are close rivals and i'm not too sure which one i can trust. The Steinway shop has a full range of all the grands.(I called them up) It is much more convenient to get a Steinway than the Mason and hamlin. Should i consider the STeinway? (M&H manufactures new pianos right? How are the different to the used M&H?) Thanks alot. (My niece would also like to thank all you wonderful guys who helped him)

Subject: Ben, why not be the first in S'pore with a Petrof! From: Joy To: Ben Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 02:23:27 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Ben, In the USA, Steinways usually have a higher price tag than M&H. But M&H doesn't advertise, their reputation is by word-of-mouth, and all of the technicians I've encountered feel it's an instrument on the same level as Steinway in terms of quality of workmanship and richness of sound. Here it is possible to get a good deal on an M&H, but not so with a Steinway. There is that famous Steinway name. It's a great instrument, and you are also buying a name, like good fashion. The M&H company is quite humble in comparison, they make quality pianos with a lot of hand-workmanship (as Steinway does), so very few of them are made per year, in contrast to mass-produced ones like Yamaha. M&H grands come in only two sizes: the 'A' (5'8') and the 'BB' (almost 7'). No, they don't make baby grands They even stopped making uprights to keep up with the demand for grands. Ben, if I were you, I'd get a piano technician from the Singapore symphony, and offer him $50 to thoroughly examine that Petrof baby grand. He'd probably have to tune it on the spot to see just how good it is. Find out the serial number so you can discover how old it is. Didn't you say your niece liked the Petrof anyway? At $15k Singapore, it's a great buy. Is it used? Joy

Subject: Re: Ben, why not be the first in S'pore with a Petrof! From: Ben To: Joy Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 03:48:58 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The Petrof is a new one. For a little bit more, (abt $700) i can get the Petrof with a full Fake Ivory keyboard. I particularly liked the feel of it because it reduces the chances of my fingers slipping off the keyboard when playing some fast and challenging pieces. I'm negoiting with the dealer right now. I've heard you mentioned about Estonias, right? I found out that they have a dealer here but they don't have any Estonia baby grands. David B and many people here rated the Estonia as the top choice when buying a baby grand. Here again, i have the problem of buying the piano from catalogue without trying it.Too risky. I also would like to get the best piano for my niece so by relying on some sources here, ( i hope they are accurate) :) i'm going to shortlist the following pianos: Kawai RX-1, (Yamaha doesn't stands a chance) Estonia baby grand, ( I don't know the model. DO you know?) and the Petrof V.I'm qutie confused with the actions .eg: Renner, Erard-hertz butterfly style...) What's the difference??? I can't find any on them. They all feel the same except that Renner's action has a faster repetiton. Should i look out for them? The Steinway was actually quite impressive,( The concert model)But it was way too expensive. Oh yes. I've contacted the Piano Tech and he agreed to check out the piano for me. Pss..( At no charge!! ) Maybe because he likes children and on seeing him so eager to learn and pick up new things , he agreed . Wow! But i'll be dropping by the Estonia dealer tommorrow to check out the prices. Thanks alot .

Subject: Re: Ben, why not be the first in S'pore with a Petrof! From: Joy To: Ben Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 15:35:36 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Ben says: 'Oh yes. I've contacted the Piano Tech and he agreed to check out the piano for me. Pss..( At no charge!! ) Maybe because he likes children and on seeing him so eager to learn and pick up new things , he agreed .' That's great. Your piano tech sounds like a good guy who understands the importance of keeping children interested in playing music. Boys (you kept saying "he" instead of "she", so please forgive me if I am mistaken and your relative is a girl niece and not a boy nephew!) are often the first to drop out of piano studies at adolescence, I'm told. Ben, you must have great negotiating skills! I'll bet you won't have any problem getting the best possible piano you can find at the best price. I'd be curious what the Estonia 5'8' would sell for in S'pore -- that is, if they have one there. Joy

Subject: Re: Ben, why not be the first in S'pore with a Petrof! From: Ben To: Joy Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 09:57:23 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Opps Joy! Apologise for all that confusion about my ' boy niece' instead of 'boy nephew'. I keep on getting fumbled up with my words. You see, the majority of my nieces and nephews are girls, only 3 are boys. I use the word 'niece' too often and always gets mixed up with 'niece' and 'nephews'!! I'm sorry for all the confusion,it should be my 'nephew'. Joy, interesting to know that boys tend to drop out of piano studies. However, all the greatest musicians are guys! (No offence to the opposite gender) :) Is the Estonia 5'8 or 5'3? I'm confused.Do you know roughly what's the price like? I've not dropped by into their store because i'm busy stocking up food.They don't have the piano there, but you can order the piano from the catalogue. Risky. Anyway, i'm making a little progress day by day, thanks to all the people here. ( My NEPHEW is laughing at me right now on being confused with those 2 words) !! Ben

Subject: Re: Ben, why not be the first in S'pore with a Petrof! From: Andrew To: Ben Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 11:07:55 (EST) Email Address: andrew.gan@prodigy.net Message: Ben, Take a closer look at Estonia grands. These definitely are pianos worth your time and research. Decades ago when Russia was still 'behind' the iron curtain under Stalin the great Sviatoslav Richter did not get enough Steinways to pound on. Instead, he played on a good deal of Petrofs and Estonias. I remember he had found memories of both brands, particularly Estonia grands. Some rare video footages of him performing you can still see he was playing on Estonia. Petrofs and Estonias were and still are built to withstand the famous Russian 'heavy-handedness'. Don't get me wrong. I did not use that term in any negative sense. Just the contrary. Don't we almost all admire the world reknown Russian 'Golden Tone' on concert grands across the five continents!? Andrew

Subject: Re: Ben, why not be the first in S'pore with a Petrof! From: Andrew To: Ben Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 08:28:35 (EST) Email Address: andrew.gan@prodigy.net Message: Ben, I can't help it. You keep addressing your niece with 'he' and 'him'. Is 'he' really your niece or nephew? I am confused, also curious. I am not trying to be rude in any sense. If I sounded like one then I apologize. Just curious to know if you don't mind. Andrew

Subject: Re: Ben, why not be the first in S'pore with a Petrof! From: Ben To: Andrew Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 09:59:29 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Sorry for the confusion, my nephew is a 'he'.I keep getting mixed up with the words. No offence taken. :)

Subject: Re: Piano for my niece From: Cork To: Ben Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 09:50:56 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Do you guys think that a grand piano might be 'too much' for my 14yr old niece? He's taking his Grade 7 soon and i hope to get him a baby grand for his birthday. I've been thinking whether getting a grand might be 'too much' for him or not. I've talked to the Petrof dealer and he can't give me 14k for a Petrof V. Is 15k a little bit too much compared to Kawai's RX-1 which cost $22,000? For the uprights, is $14,000 to much for Petrof 131?(All prices in S'pore $) The U5 had a very nice sound but i'll still prefer the Petrof. If i get the Petrof, what preps must i do to get in in top shape? I've heard that i need to do some preps to get it back in the right shape. What are the things must i do? Thank You (Darn! Can't find A dealer that carries Sauter) --- Ben, If all your prices are S$, then the Petrof V at S$15,000 is approximately US$9,000, and the RX-1 at S$22,000 is approximately US$13,000. Are these used pianos? Those are VERY low prices. Key to decision would be your confidence in finding a good technician to maintain the instrument. If you can, you should consider the Petrofs, but do not buy without an inspection by an independent tech you trust. Otherwise it would be safer to go with the RX-1. Cork

Subject: Congrats Jim on purch of new M&H BB for under 28K! From: Rich To: All Date Posted: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 18:16:55 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Jim, Congratulations on the piano deal of the year! A new Mason & Hamlin BB for under $28,000 is quite a buy. I'm really really jealous. Good luck on the piano and remember you said i could come over any time and play to my heart's content. Rich

Subject: congrats & a suggestion... From: Mat D. To: Rich Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 23:03:28 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: Jim, congratulations on your new piano. What a deal you got, I thought I did well at $31k--but even at $51k, I still would have bought this same piano, I'm sure you would agree. Why don't you e-mail or call Cecil Ramirez at Mason & Hamlin and tell him about you purchase. Cecil is National sales Manager there & words of encouragement are always passed on to the technicians who bring this wonderful instrument to life. (800) 566-3472 or cecil@pianodisc.com Tell him Mat D. from Detroit gave you the numbers; he'll be glad to hear from you. Play in good health! Mat D.

Subject: Re: Congrats Jim on purch of new M&H BB for under 28K! From: William To: All Date Posted: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 19:03:45 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Jim, Congratulations on the piano deal of the year! A new Mason & Hamlin BB for under $28,000 is quite a buy. I'm really really jealous. Good luck on the piano and remember you said i could come over any time and play to my heart's content. Rich --- That's great however we need this wonderful instrument and Company to remain viable, otherwise the alternative is a comparably sized Steinway at 54K. Give the guys at M&H a call, let them know how appreciative we are that they have returned this magnificient American instrument to us and send them a tip! Enjoy your new BB, what finish did you get?

Subject: Re: Congrats Jim on purch of new M&H BB for under 28K! From: jim To: William Date Posted: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 19:30:56 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: Thanks for your good wishes. The finish is ebony; the tone is unbelievably powerful. Is anyone else out there buying a BB?

Subject: Re: Congrats Jim on purch of new M&H BB for under 28K! From: William To: jim Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 10:14:25 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Yes, at least for us as well. We paid more than you but still got an incredible value. We compared the BB to a Steinway B selling for 54K during our search and found the BB to be superior. The price differential was icing on the cake. Ours is ebony as well. By the way, if you haven't seen it already check out M&H's new promotional literature particularly what's written on the back cover concerning 'sevanthood', these guys get my vote in more way than one. I would be interested in hearing from others about this!

Subject: The DC area M+H Dealer From: jim To: William Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 15:43:19 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: William -- I agree with everything you said. By the way, I stopped by the DC area M+H dealer today just to see what they were asking for M+Hs. The price tags on their pianos were $54.9k for the BB and $44k for the A, both of which are approximately 10% more than the price listed in the back of the most recent Larry Fine supplement. This is the kind of approach to piano selling that cries out for a listing on this site of prices that people of paying for new pianos. Dealers obviously need to make a living, but . . .t

Subject: Re: The DC area M+H Dealer From: Richard To: jim Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 21:31:02 (EST) Email Address: soundscapes@aol.com Message: Just so you know Jim, there was a rather large price increase on the Masons at the NAMM trade show in LA. Larry's book does not reflect the new prices. I just became a dealer at the show, but am now having second thoughts after seeing what this person alledgedly bought the BB for. At a price like that, it wouldn't cover the cost of wholesale, prep & delivery. If dealers can't make a profit on this line, it will soon go under. Please keep this in mind when quoting these 'great deals'.

Subject: Re: The DC area M+H Dealer From: jim To: Richard Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 08:15:04 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: Richard -- Thanks for your reply. How much was the price increase? And, for my information, what kind of markup (percentage wise) do you think that a dealer needs on this type of piano in order to stay in business. FYI, this piano was sent out of the factory in the early summer of 1999, before the price increase. The ones I saw in at the DC area dealer had serial numbers within 15 or so of the one that I purchased. I don't pretend to think that everyone will be able to purchase this piano for under $28k. I see no reason, however, for some of the very substantial markups that I have seen. Jim

Subject: Re: The DC area M+H Dealer From: jim To: Richard Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 08:14:45 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: Richard -- Thanks for your reply. How much was the price increase? And, for my information, what kind of markup (percentage wise) do you think that a dealer needs on this type of piano in order to stay in business. FYI, this piano was sent out of the factory in the early summer of 1999, before the price increase. The ones I saw in at the DC area dealer had serial numbers within 15 or so of the one that I purchased. I don't pretend to think that everyone will be able to purchase this piano for under $28k. I see no reason, however, for some of the very substantial markups that I have seen. Jim

Subject: Re: The DC area M+H Dealer From: David Burton To: jim Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 23:18:47 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Faust Harrison in New York was selling their BB's for $44K and their A's for $27.5K or thereabouts. These are for what you are buying still excellent prices. One thing I have to remind people is that quality at low price in ANYTHING is usually a short time thing. Most quality you really have to pay for. If I had $4,400 cash and could sign a loan for the rest and really thought I had the room for it a Mason & Hamlin BB would be siting in my livingroom, or at least it might be of the four or five pianos of desire that I have in mind. The others are a Petrof II, an Estonia 6'3', an August Forster 6' 10' I think it was and a rebult Steinway A or O from the Golden Age, in African Mahogany perhaps. Any one of these are top flight pianos. I don't have the room or the money, LOL, but someday.

Subject: Piano Pricing From: jim To: David Burton Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 08:11:55 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: I thought Richard raised an interesting point in his reply. I would love to hear from dealers and others how much of a profit margin (above the cost of the piano) they feel they need to make a reasonable profit and still stay in business. There certainly are many places where you pay a bit more but get excellent preparation and service. There are other stores where you pay a lot and get little or nothing in return. The problem, of course, is that the limited number of dealerships (particularly for high-end pianos) greatly reduces competition and leaves consumers at the mercy of the remaining dealerships or searching far and wide for their pianos. Any thoughts? Jim

Subject: Re: Congrats Jim on purch of new M&H BB for under 28K! From: Joy To: jim Date Posted: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 19:55:07 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Wow Jim, congratulations! Boy am I envious. I think the most unbelievable quality it has is the way you can go from dynamic/full/complex/LOUD to gentle/restraint in a heartbeat. What nuances you can perform with that BB!!! A magnificent instrument. Maybe someday... Enjoy it. Joy \:)/

Subject: Re: Congrats Jim on purch of new M&H BB for under 28K! From: jim To: Joy Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 07:12:06 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: Joy -- I agree with you completely. When Rich told me about the piano (and the price), I had no intention of buying it even though it was a terrific deal. However, after I played it, my mind changed immediately. All I had to do was to convince my wife (not an easy thing to do given our current space limitations). Jim

Subject: Re: Congrats Jim on purch of new M&H BB for under 28K! From: David Burton To: jim Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 13:48:15 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: For the few out there who may not know what this piano is like, see me playing one on the Faust Harrison page about it on my website, what Jim has just bought for an unbelievable price is the equivalent of a very good concert grand. How one can have one of these huge powerful pianos in their house if they don't live in a large one is hard for me to imagine, the A would be piano enough for me. I'm wondering what deals one can get on an A if one can get a BB for so little?

Subject: BB mass (1029 lbs)...thoughts... From: Mat D. To: David Burton Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 23:26:54 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: David burton asked: How one can have one of these huge powerful pianos in their house if they don't live in a large one is hard for me to imagine. David, as you well know, the beauty of an instrument of this calibre is that it truly can be voiced to your environment. My living room is small but my BB (powerful as it is) sounds absolutely wonderful--my technician voiced the piano to my specifications & it is great. Certainly I can bring the house down with power that the BB has, but it is so capable of sounding beautiful at every dynamic level, that it is very easy for the pianist (usually me)to make it sound great in the room; some pianos are impossible to keep 'under control' and to play at reasonable volumes. It is quite a feeling though when you do need that extra power that the piano responds and it's all there. You have mentioned the mass of this instrument (1029 lbs) and to be honest, when my piano was first delivered I had bad dreams about all this mass in my living room & the house holding up underneath (there is a basement below) and I used to tip toe up to the piano. I've gotten over that now & I know it was a bit irrational. Best regards, Mat D.

Subject: Re: BB mass (1029 lbs)...thoughts... From: jim To: Mat D. Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 08:19:44 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: Matt -- How big is your living room and how high are the ceilings? Is the room carpeted? In response to your earlier e-mail, I have spoken to Cecil and told him about how wonderful this piano is. The thought is a good one, though. Jim

Subject: ceiling/room dimension/carpeting... From: Mat D. To: jim Date Posted: Tues, Feb 15, 2000 at 09:39:51 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: Jim, My house is a (3) bedroom ranch and the living room has a normal (whatever the code is for ceilings) height ceiling and is carpeted. The room dimensions are approx 16X14--havent measured lately-maybe a tad smaller, but I really havent had any trouble with volume. Once the piano is voiced properly you can control it easily; obviously I don't practice when my family is trying to sleep etc. regard, Mat D.

Subject: Re: Congrats Jim on purch of new M&H BB for under 28K! From: William To: David Burton Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 19:01:49 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The dealer we purchased our BB from had an A on the floor, with a tag at 26.5K, they discounted the BB from the tag by 2K so there is a reference point. Having owned a Model 50 for 25 years we were impressed at how it compared to the A, nearly its match which says how strong both instruments are. I would not worry about CURRENT room size, I agree with David but push everything aside (or sellit) put the BB in the middle and enjoy. It's a once in a lifetime purchase and good luck with the search for a new home!

Subject: Re: Congrats Jim on purch of new M&H BB for under 28K! From: jim To: David Burton Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 15:48:17 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: David -- I quite frankly am a little concerned about room size myself, as the living room we currently have is 15x18. I would have preferred to wait (we are looking for a new house) but the deal was too good to turn down. Given that the 'Larry Fine' list price for an A is $10k less than the BB, and assuming that dealers pay approximately half the 'Larry Fine' cost for the pianos, I would imagine that it is theoretically possible to get an A for about $23k. I have not seen that price for an A recently, though. Jim

Subject: Buying a BB From: kenny To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 09:57:13 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Well, after reading this forum for a few months I've finally spoken. It's time to take the plunge and buy my dream piano. I played Steinway Bs (have they heard of prep?) Apparently most Steinways are purchased by interior decorators to whom prep means shopping for the perfect silk shawl to drape over the piano. I'm also checking out Sauter. Steinway dealers must find people who actually play to be such a bother. Being a working stiff I can't afford Bosendorfer, Faziol,i Bechstein, etc. I have a 1968 Baldwin R, excellent condition) to sell or trade in. (Advice anyone. . .) I guess it would list for $10K at a dealer. So how much would I list for, and then settle selling to a private party? How much to expect from a dealer as a trade in? I've hired a highly recommended tech to look over the satin ebony BB. Now I just have to zero in on a price.

Subject: Re: Buying a BB From: ryan To: kenny Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 18:54:15 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: Interesting you mention Sauter. There is a dealer in my area that sold three 7' Sauter grands last year, two of them within 14 days and one of them in less than two months. I believe they were all bought by players and or college level teachers. I think Sauter makes fantastic sounding and playing pianos, and apparantly other people do as well. Ryan Ryan

Subject: Congrats & more... From: Mat D. To: kenny Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 14:13:51 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: Kenny, congratulations on your choice & welcome to the club. You will be one among several of us here at 'Piano Forum' who own this wonderful instrument. BTW, if you have any questions about M&H you can contact Cecil Ramirez (National Sales Manager/M&H --- (800) 566-3472 or e-mail: cecil@pianodisc.com) I'm sure he will be happy to hear from you --- Tell him Mat D. from Detroit sent you. Mat D.

Subject: Re: First piano purchase From: stella To: Mat D. Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 10:23:52 (EST) Email Address: stella@netscape.net Message: Mat D.: Saw your mention of Detroit. I am a Detroit resident. Shopping for my first piano - upright. Local dealer is recommending a Petrof. I was impressed with the sound, but I'm a novice. The prices seemed reasonable - liked the guy. New 50' 126 for $6000 or a used 50' (10yrold) for $4000(looked in great condition inside). Advise out there? Thanks.....

Subject: Re: First piano purchase From: David Burton To: stella Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 23:39:24 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: I like the Petrof uprights a lot and I like the newer ones best. They play and sound very well for the money.

Subject: Re: First piano purchase From: stella To: Mat D. Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 10:20:31 (EST) Email Address: stella@netscape.net Message:

Subject: Re: Buying a BB From: jim To: kenny Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 14:01:34 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: You are absolutely making a terrific decision in purchasing and Mason and Hamlin BB. They are wonderful instruments. Please send me at e-mail so that we can discuss where you can get an unbelievable deal on a BB -- you won't believe the price.

Subject: Re: Buying a BB From: jim To: kenny Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 14:01:08 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: You are absolutely making a terrific decision in purchasing and Mason and Hamlin BB. They are wonderful instruments. Please send me at e-mail so that we can discuss where you can get an unbelievable deal on a BB -- you won't believe the price.

Subject: Re: Buying a BB From: jodi To: kenny Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 10:26:00 (EST) Email Address: jodi@radon.chem.uidaho.eud Message: Kenny, congratulations on deciding on a BB - what an great piano. I had to laugh at your Steinway comments, having had similar experiences. It's too bad, because I'm sure they are also awesome (but still too expensive) when properly prepped. Hopefully someone here can give advise on depriciation - there is a table in the back of Larry Fine's about it. It says that a grand over thirty years old is worth about 30% of its 'new value' (and I am assuming you use today's new value - and not what the piano cost new?) Is this for a piano that has been very well maintained, but not rebuilt? You could hire the tech you like to appraise your Baldwin. I'm sure a piano store would also give you an appraisal. If you can deal with the hassle, I would try to sell it yourself. I'm sure its like selling/buying a car, you will always get a better price not using it as a trade-in. There have been a wide range of price quotes on this forum for the BB - from 30someK all the way to 70K! Let us know how your negotiating goes - and again, congratulations!

Subject: Why not another Baldwin? From: Angelique To: kenny Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 10:21:53 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Kenny, As a fellow piano shopper, who has played and will play many different brands of piano before my quest has ended, I'm curious as to why you aren't considering a Baldwin L or SF10. I visited a dealer last week to try the Charles Walter piano and found he also carried Baldwin. I played an SF10 and thought it sounded pretty good, though the touch wasn't quite to my liking. Just curious.

Subject: Re: Why not another Baldwin? From: Andrew To: Angelique Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 20:54:16 (EST) Email Address: andrew.gan@prodigy.net Message: Angelique, I know Baldwin is a very good piano. However, IMHO, it is definitely no match for M&H BB. BB is the Olympian of all pianos. Andrew

Subject: SF10 action From: Cork To: Angelique Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 14:27:07 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Angelique, Not meaning to sway you one way or another, but the SF10 has the concert Renner action. If you did not care for the touch, it is likely that a tech could tailor it to your preference. Same would go for an M&H BB, S&S B, or any number of top tier instruments, for that matter. I, too, admire the L and SF10, by the way. When properly prepped, they are excellent pianos. Cork

Subject: Everyone's getting answers but me! From: Sue To: All Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 05:46:05 (EST) Email Address: gandalf@fl.net.au Message: Please, please, please... can anyone tell me ANYTHING about my piano - Richard Lipp and Sohnn, Stuttgart. Ornate legs, two candlabra at front, embossed filigree at front, upright. This is my third attempt at getting a response. Please help me!

Subject: Re: Everyone's getting answers but me! From: sue To: Sue Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 05:48:48 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thankyou for your responses. You have restored my faith in this informative, interesting and helpful web site.

Subject: Re: Everyone's getting answers but me! From: jodi To: Sue Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 19:37:01 (EST) Email Address: Don't worry, we're not ignoring you on purpose! Message: Most of us who frequent this site don't have those books that list practically every piano ever made - which is why you don't get quite as many comments as some of the other posts. David - is the Pierce Piano Atlas expensive?

Subject: Re: Everyone's getting answers but me! From: David Burton To: jodi Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 23:02:14 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Jodi asks, 'David - is the Pierce Piano Atlas expensive?' About $45 hardcover, less softcover, but I like having it in hardcover as it's getting plenty of use. Together with the Larry Fine books, you have in three books a lot about pianos.

Subject: Re: Everyone's getting answers but me! From: David Burton To: Sue Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 13:37:50 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: OK, Rich, Lipp & Sohn, est. 1831 in Stuttgart, Germany, from 1993, a Welpdale property (English), a fairly prominent company, probably worth restoring if you plan on keeping it, Strongly suggest full restoration if not replacement of the action with a new Renner action. In a piano of this type it will make a big difference. It's pretty old so you will of course as we always recommend, have a piano technician look your piano over and especially look for wear and tear of the bridges and soundboard. When you hire someone to restore it, you will want someone who will remove and restore the soundboard and bridge, also replace the pinbock, rescale and restring with new Roslau and the best bass strings you can buy, I like Sanderson or Ari Isaac but there are others, use regular ivorite on the keys. Depending on the size, the bigger the better, these pianos sound very good and in this vintage easily get $10K when fully restored to 'like new' condition.

Subject: Re: Everyone's getting answers but me! From: Rich To: Sue Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 13:14:37 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Sue, Info on that piano maker appears hard to come by. I checked the book 'Pianos and Their Makers' and it referred to Richard Lipp & Sohn as among the noteworthy firms of Stuttgart established in 1831. That's it. Maybe someone else will have better luck.

Subject: walter Vs yamaha upright From: cc To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 11:01:23 (EST) Email Address: cchen@zgf.com Message: Yamaha U1 (new $6,300 or used 20yr $3,600) U1 or 45' C. Walter for (new $5000). I can not find from the archives.I like the sound of C.Walter and think they are built better and will last longer. Wife and 5 yr kid thought both is ok and do think Y will sale easier if necessary.Both dealer are all right. Try Petrof and Kawai but not impressed because of salesman. Any comment is welcome.Thanks in advance.

Subject: Re: walter Vs yamaha upright From: jim To: cc Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 21:08:45 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: You should also try the Yamaha U-3. You can purchase a new U-1 for $4900 and a new U-3 for $6500, and the U-3 will sound better than the U-1. Where are you located? Jim

Subject: Re: walter Vs yamaha upright From: cc To: jim Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 10:54:17 (EST) Email Address: cchen@zgf.com Message: Thanks for all the advise. I am in Seattle area.

Subject: Re: walter Vs yamaha upright From: Jim To: cc Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 13:58:01 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: You should try to bargain with the dealer. If that fails, go to a relatively nearby dealer with the price that I quoted to you on the U-1 and U-3.

Subject: Re: walter Vs yamaha upright From: Cork To: cc Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 18:35:05 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: CC, Both the U1 and the Charles Walter are fine, well-made instruments that will last for a very long time. The two points you made in your note that are important are: 1. you like the sound of the Charles Walter better; and 2. reselling the Yamaha will be easier if you decide to sell. Those are the two factors you must weigh in your mind. In my opinion, you cannot make a bad choice between these two instruments. Cork

Subject: Re: walter Vs yamaha upright From: cy To: cc Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 11:13:21 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: We just bought a Charles Walter 1500 for 5K, after weighing between U1 and this for a couple of month. We finally decided it is probably better for kids to learn classical music on a more richer/warmer tone than U1's brighter sound. Although I'd like to let you know that we don't really play music and we bought it primarily for our 5-yr old and ourselves to start learning. I posted similar message that you should be able to find.

Subject: Re: walter Vs yamaha upright From: ryan To: cy Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 14:07:28 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: Congratulations! I think you will enjoy your piano for many years. I agree about the warmer tone, I personally like it much better, especially for classical music. Another thing that is good about Charles Walter is that the keys are full size, which means that the touch is even from the front to the back of the key. You will appreciate this more and more as you learn to play because you won't have to fight an uneven touch as much. Be sure to keep it regulated as that will also keep your enjoyment of the instrument high through the years. Again, congratulations! Ryan

Subject: Re: walter Vs yamaha upright From: Toni To: ryan Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 15:29:28 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: cc, I agree with Cork, cy and ryan. We just got our Walter 1500 and love it. Sounds so much better (to us) than the Yamaha. We also looked at Kawai and Petrof.

Subject: Re: walter Vs yamaha upright From: cy To: Toni Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 16:25:16 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: We have a squeaking middle C key and sometimes, it does not repeat very well, as it seems. Do you have any problems with your CW piano after you got it? We have not had the first tune up service from the dealer, I hope it is an easy fix.

Subject: Re: walter Vs yamaha upright From: Toni To: cy Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 22:50:42 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: We haven't gotten our first tuning yet either. Haven't noticed any problems whatsoever. We are on it all the time too.

Subject: Re: walter Vs yamaha upright From: jodi To: cy Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 17:14:12 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Cy - I'll bet its easy to fix. Our grand had a scratchy noise that I heard on a couple of keys - it turned out to be an off-center piece of felt that was brushing against the key next to it. - The tech just trimmed it. The repeating problem is probably just an adjustment.

Subject: Re: walter Vs yamaha upright From: cc To: Toni Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 12:15:56 (EST) Email Address: cchen@zgf.com Message: Thanks for all the response. We saw a used 16 yrs 50' UX that sound better and warmer that U1 for $4,300. My heart still goes w/ Walter. Thanks again.

Subject: Finding a Teacher From: Tony To: All Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 14:18:30 (EST) Email Address: agray540@aol.com Message: I just recently purchased my first piano, a used Kohler. Now comes the good part, finding a teacher! In my area of Virginia there are several studios and private teachers. The going rate is from $12.50 to 17.00 a half hour. Is this a good rate? What questions should I ask while seeking an instructor? I dont want to get discouraged by the teacher as I did when I was a child, I hope this to be a GREAT learning time. Your suggestions are greatly appreciated. Thanks

Subject: Re: Finding a Teacher From: Rich To: Tony Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 21:54:23 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Tony, Don't know what part of Virginia you are from but a good source for getting a piano teacher is the local community college. The prices you quoted sound in the ball park and maybe even a little low for the northern Virginia area where I am from. Good luck. Rich

Subject: Re: Rich - recommendations in No. Va? From: Becky To: Rich Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 11:20:19 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Rich, I live in Northern Virginia (Herndon/Reston), and I am currently looking for a teacher for my children, ages six and three. I am having no luck. I'm interested especially in the Suzuki method. Do you have any recommendations? Thank you!

Subject: Re: Rich - recommendations in No. Va? From: Toni To: Becky Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 22:47:44 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Becky, I got a long list from The Piano Co. (as Rich suggested). Happy hunting.

Subject: Re: Rich - recommendations in No. Va? From: Rich To: Becky Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 22:09:41 (EST) Email Address: RicDfenbek@aol.com Message: Becky, I live in Arlington and know a few close by but not out your way. I would still check with the Northern Va. Comm College nearest you. They have piano teachers there that also teach at home. Also give a call to the Piano Company (Leesburg) and ask if they have any recommendations. Good luck. Rich

Subject: Re: Finding a Teacher From: Cork To: Tony Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 21:42:21 (EST) Email Address: cvdh@my-Deja.com Message: Tony, Another site worth considering is www.mtna.org, the Music Teachers National Association home page. I believe they have a listing of members by location and instrument. As for prices, it's around $40 per hour and up here in Dallas for a good instructor. Cork

Subject: Re: Finding a Teacher From: Andrew To: Tony Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 15:06:30 (EST) Email Address: andrew.gan@prodigy.net Message: Tony, You can search the WEB to get the info you need. To get you jump started let me give you one such site where you can find information regarding questions like 'How to Find a Good Teacher', 'How to Change a Teacher', 'How to Practice Efficiently', etc. Hope other pianists and teachers will provide more. The WEB URL is: http://www.serve.com/marbeth/piano.html It's never too late to learn the piano. Good luck with your new pursuit! Andrew

Subject: Rieger-Kloss pianos From: Tholstrup To: All Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 08:33:50 (EST) Email Address: The_Tholstrups@compuserve.com Message: Has anyone had experience with Rieger-Kloss upright pianos? My daughter has reached the British Grade 8 standard and I am looking for a new piano for her. This brand and Petrof, both from Czech Republic have been mentioned to me.

Subject: Re: Rieger-Kloss pianos From: shofir To: Tholstrup Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 10:17:03 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: read the responses to my message: 'Hoffman & Czerny Vs. Scholze', especially Murray's response. shofir

Subject: My 'New' Piano From: Al Young To: All Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 10:44:08 (EST) Email Address: albrtyoung@aol.com Message: I have purchased a C. Kurtzmann & Co. Upright Piano (Serial number 64050) and am trying to find a piano tuner in the Rochester NY area. I'm also curious as to the age of the piano - anyone have a pierce atlas and willing to look it up for me?

Subject: Re: My 'New' Piano From: Bruce To: Al Young Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 07:13:00 (EST) Email Address: Peano86381@aol.com Message: Al: Looks like around 1918, Wurlitzer used this name from 1935-1938. Line was discontinued after 1938. regards Bruce

Subject: Re: My 'New' Piano From: David Burton To: Al Young Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 13:15:07 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: The serial you gave, 64050, puts it in 1917. Kurtzmann of course is a Buffalo, New York company so you bought a fairly local product. They sold a lot of their product in Canada. They went under in the late thirties so your piano was made in Buffalo. Their big uprights and mid to large grands from this period are accorded 'golden age' status by some and considered worth restoring.

Subject: Re: My 'New' Piano From: Bruce To: David Burton Date Posted: Mon, Feb 14, 2000 at 08:48:49 (EST) Email Address: Peano86381@aol.com Message: Dave: Sorry I didnt see your reply to Al. Yes you are right as well on the year 1917. regards Bruce

Subject: ** GRADING SYSTEM FOR PIANOS ** From: Paul Mendes To: All Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 15:32:53 (EST) Email Address: mendespaul@hotmail.com Message: Can anyone please inform me as to what the following grades mean (which are used to grade used pianos). Grade A+, A, B+, B.....etc. Thank you

Subject: room humidifiers???? From: Rob To: All Date Posted: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 21:36:52 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Any suggestions ??? I've decided to go that route versus the installation of a unit inside my upright ? - Thanks

Subject: Re: room humidifiers???? From: Toni To: Rob Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 15:31:56 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Rob, We had the dampchaser humidifier installed on our piano. I really like it. No noise or mess. And the kids love to see me 'watering' the piano. Hope this helps.

Subject: Re: room humidifiers???? From: Tom Brun To: Rob Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 21:35:21 (EST) Email Address: tdbrun@worldnet.att.net Message: I purcahsed an Emerson 'moist air 1204' at home depot for $99.00. 12 gallon capacity. It does make some noise when running but with the fan set on low the noise doesn't bother me. It has a humidity setting so it doesn't run constantly It took awhile for me to find a good place for it. In one room the moisture on the windows was excessive. I moved it to a room next to the room where the piano is and things seem fine. It is a little on the large size, though the cabinet is somewhat attractive, but the weekly maintance is a pain. With a little adjusting and patience humidity is very stable. I use a digital temperature and humidity unit that I paid about $30.00 for. Readings are 39% - 44%. well worth it if you don't mind the 30 minutes of maintance every weekend. I would be sure to use an accurate Digital humidity indicator to supplement it as there is no digital reading on the humidifier. Good Luck, Tom

Subject: Re: room humidifiers???? From: thammer To: Rob Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 01:07:11 (EST) Email Address: johnmarkham@hotmail.com Message: I think a dampchaser unit installed would be much better.

Subject: Re: room humidifiers???? From: Cork To: Rob Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 00:38:03 (EST) Email Address: cvdh@my-Deja.com Message: Rob, I use a pair of Duracraft DH904 humidifiers. They are relatively small and during very dry spells I must fill them each once a day, but they have worked well for me. As Frank notes, I target the 40 - 50% RH range. Rgds, Cork

Subject: Re: room humidifiers???? From: Piano World To: Rob Date Posted: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 21:42:33 (EST) Email Address: webmaster@pianoworld.com Message: Dear Rob, If you are going to use a 'full room' humidifier, be careful where you place it. Pianos don't like excessive moisture any more than they like dryness. The ideal humidity range is about 40 to 50% (for pianos, but people like 50 to 60)

Subject: ** GRADING SYSTEM FOR PIANOS ** From: Paul Mendes To: All Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 15:31:21 (EST) Email Address: mendespaul@hotmail.com Message:

Subject: SAME PIANOS YET DIFFERENT SOUND AND FEEL From: Idalina To: All Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 01:54:49 (EST) Email Address: idalinagonscalves@hotmail.com Message: I played two pianos in two differently owned showrooms. The showrooms themselves were similar and the pianos IDENTICAL (1999 Yamaha C-1). However the sound of one piano, as well as the feel and action was quite different. Piano A sounded clearer and the action was extremely consistent, light, and pleasurable. Piano B's sound, however, seemed more muffled and the action was defintely more mechanical and not as light or fluid. I found my fingers 'tripping' on quick passages. Both pianos were in perfect toon. Again, both pianos are identical in model and age (new C-1). What may you attribute this to (given that the showrooms were similar and that the difference was more that just in sound). Is it possible that the 'inferior' piano could sound and feel as good as the superior one if it was prepped correctly? The inferior one is $2,500 cheaper. Your assistance is greatly appreciated. Idalina Gonscalves

Subject: Re: SAME PIANOS YET DIFFERENT SOUND AND FEEL From: jim To: Idalina Date Posted: Sun, Feb 13, 2000 at 07:16:49 (EST) Email Address: eileenjiim@erols.com Message: What prices have you been quoted for the piano? A technician may be able to adjust the action through regulation and the tone through voicing -- assuming that either dealership is offering a fair deal, I would demand from the first dealership that he at least do the regulation and promise to do the voicing as part of your in-home service. Also, I would try to give yourself an escape hatch if the voicing does not work -- put into the contract that you have the right to return the piano within a certain amount of time after the voicing if you pay for the delivery charges. I got this deal (without delivery charges) for my first piano, and it saved my skin. If the dealer is not willing to do this, I would either buy the more expensive piano or keep looking, depending on the price the more expensive dealer is quoting you.

Subject: Hoffman & Czerny Vs. Scholze From: shofir To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 05:38:27 (EST) Email Address: shofir@techst02.technion.ac.il Message: Hi, can anyone give me some useful information about Hoffman & Czerny pianos? What about Scholze pianos (from the Petrof family, much like Weinbach)? which one do you think I should buy (they have the same price)? (don't have enough money to buy a Petrof) Thanks

Subject: Re: Hoffman & Czerny Vs. Scholze From: Cork To: shofir Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 17:17:44 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Sorry, I've never seen either a Hoffman & Czerny in the US; do you know who the manufacturer is and where they are made? Are you looking at verticals or grands? I believe Bechstein used a W. Hoffmann label on a budget line in which the grands were made by Petrof, but given the spelling difference and the ' & Czerny' I suspect you are looking at a Korean, Chinese, or Indonesian piano with a Germanic label. That doesn't rule it out, but you should find out who makes it and where before proceeding. As for the Scholze, I'd think the common warnings regarding Petrof products (especially verticals) would apply: nice tone, but have the piano checked out by an independent piano tech before purchasing. Not much help, but at least some things to consider.

Subject: Re: Hoffman & Czerny Vs. Scholze From: shofir To: Cork Date Posted: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 05:42:12 (EST) Email Address: shofir@techst02.technion.ac.il Message: Thanks for replying. I'v done some research and it seems that the Hoffman & Czerny are made by the Bohemia factory in Czech, and they are probably the same pianos as the Rieger-Kloss in the US. So, can you tell me anything about them, and compare a 48' Rieger-Kloss and a 45' Weinbach/Scholze?

Subject: Re: Hoffman & Czerny Vs. Scholze From: Murray To: shofir Date Posted: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 20:33:03 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hi! We purchased a 48'upright, made by Bohemia piano and sold here in Canada under the Heintzman name, late last summer. We've been happy with it so far,and we just had it tuned and looked over by a well respected piano tech two days ago. He was generally impressed with the piano overall and did mention that he felt it was a better quality than the Petrof uprights that he had worked on thus far. The one problem that he did find was that on a few of the notes the alignment was slightly off between the strings and the hammers (the hammer was only striking 2 of the three strings firmly) He said it was something that could be corrected but it does go to show that it is a good idea to follow the advice on this forum and have any piano you buy checked over by an independent tech and discover some of these things before you plunk down the cash. Hope some of this helps and good luck in your search. Murray

Subject: Re: Hoffman & Czerny Vs. Scholze From: Cork To: shofir Date Posted: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 11:46:23 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I've no experience with the R-K verticals. Sounds like you might be comparing an R-K budget line with a Petrof budget line; my guess is that they are probably pretty similar in quality, both being made in the Czech Republic with local components. I believe the Bohemia and Petrof factories were all run by the same 'company' in the days of Communism. Unless someone else has direct experience comparing the two brands or unless you're willing to pay a local independent tech to help you select between the two, my inclination would be to go for the larger of the two pianos. Three inches can make a nice difference in both the scale design and the size of the action. Anyone else care to comment? Cork

Subject: Rieger-Kloss Vs. Weinbach From: shofir To: All Date Posted: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 05:52:09 (EST) Email Address: shofir@techst02.technion.ac.il Message: Hi, For those of you who were intimidated by the 'Hoffman & Czerny' title of my last message (because they have probably never heard about it), I'm writing it again using the US name Reiger-Kloss. (by the way, thanks Cork for replying) well, here goes... Is there anyone who can give me some useful information about the Rieger-Kloss pianos, and compare a 48' Rieger-Kloss to a 45' Weinbach (which one should I by)? Thanks

Subject: Re: Rieger-Kloss Vs. Weinbach From: eileenjim@erols.com To: shofir Date Posted: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 06:19:14 (EST) Email Address: jim Message: How much is your dealer charging for each? How much does your dealer charge for the 50' Weinbach? Where are you located -- I may be able to help you get a better deal.

Subject: Re: Rieger-Kloss Vs. Weinbach From: shofir To: eileenjim@erols.com Date Posted: Sat, Feb 12, 2000 at 12:09:10 (EST) Email Address: shofir@techst02.technion.ac.il Message: They have the same price (different dealers) and I don't think you can get me a better deal because I live in Israel (but thanks anyway) shofir

Subject: Steinhauer Piano From: Karen Steinhauer To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 23:38:01 (EST) Email Address: karens@san.rr.com Message: I am trying to locate any information on the Steinhauer piano. I know that it was made from 1902 until 1920 in Chicago, and only 27,000 were made. Does anyone have additional information, and suggestions on how I can locate one? Please send comments to karens@san.rr.com. Thanks!

Subject: SERIAL NUMBERS & PIANO'S AGE ?? From: Richard Bertini To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 19:31:39 (EST) Email Address: bertinimd@hotmail.com Message: I would like to know how I can find out a pianos precise age using the serial number. The piano in question is a YAMAHA grand C-5. Here is the serial number: E 4213840 Thank you very much!! Richard Bertini

Subject: Re: SERIAL NUMBERS & PIANO'S AGE ?? From: Granholm Bros To: Richard Bertini Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 21:07:36 (EST) Email Address: gbros@wanweb.net Message: I would like to know how I can find out a pianos precise age using the serial number. The piano in question is a YAMAHA grand C-5. Here is the serial number: E 4213840 Thank you very much!! Richard Bertini --- You find out a piano's age by consulting the Pierce Piano Atlas, which is owned by most piano technicians. The C-5 in question was built in 1986. John Granholm Granholm Bros Piano Roseburg OR

Subject: Trying to find some old music From: jodi To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 20:08:03 (EST) Email Address: jodi@radon.chem.uidaho.edu Message: Hi all - My mother-in-law heard some piano music that she liked the other day - but when she called the music store, they said it was out of print. The composer is Robert Stearer, and the piece is called Seven Vignettes (with names like Tocatta, Jigsaw, Chorale) - the copy that the pianist had was done in 1951. Any ideas about how to get ahold of this music? (besides the xerox machine...)

Subject: SERIAL NUMBERS AND PIANO'S AGE ?? From: Richard Bertini To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 11, 2000 at 19:31:18 (EST) Email Address: bertinimd@hotmail.com Message: I would like to know how I can find out a pianos precise age using the serial number. The piano in question is a YAMAHA grand C-5. Here is the serial number: E 4213840 Thank you very much!! Richard Bertini

Subject: Perfect or Play the field From: Ed P. To: All Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 16:08:22 (EST) Email Address: ep@web-o.net Message: Just looking for a second opinion. I am an adult student...age 50...been playing for about 15 months ... teacher has me playing early intermediate material and perhaps some a bit more advanced. My question is spawned from music lessons taken on another instrument many years ago. My teacher at that time felt that perfecting pieces was not as beneficial as playing through a large quantity of material. I am at the point in my progress where I am frustrated by not having material perfected but am also desiring to play more music. I have only limited practice time maybe 2 hours per day. The question: How should my time be apportioned between a)technical development (drills, scales, etc.) b)perfecting current arrangments c)working on new material? Is sightreading through many songs at one time a worthwhile activity? ie. I just brought home a couple of books from the library and spent an hour or so just hacking my way through them. Thank you.

Subject: Re: Perfect or Play the field From: David Burton To: Ed P. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 22:55:58 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: I always think it’s important for a pianist no matter how amateur to attempt to set up a regular repertoire of pieces they can play from memory; perfectly, by heart, etc. However it is also important to do some exploring by playing through a bunch of music just to see what it’s like. Of course in order to do this one must be able to sight read, not an easy task for the best of us. What one needs to do is to take the time signature, break it down into parts extended over the first measure, then the next and so on, working very carefully so as not to make any mistakes. Music notation is amazingly exact, even in the most nuanced passages. A tine dotted figure here as opposed to a regular braced figure there can make all the difference in how a piece sounds in the end. I think it’s good to get as much music read as possible but even better to have learned a few pieces sufficiently well that one can just suit down and play them. Now as for committing a piece to memory, for me it goes something like this; 1) very carefully and SLOWLY read it, do that a number of times painstakingly paying attention to the fingering and the exact rhythmic count of the notes. Sometimes one must learn one hand at a time and them put them together. 2) bring the piece slowly up to tempo, still reading the music from the sheet music. This may need to be done 50 or 60 times. 3) begin playing the piece without the music, but each time you’re unsure or make an obvious mistake, get back to the music because you don’t want to put mistakes into what you’re learning that will only have to be unlearned. This is actually the hardest part of the process because you are entraining your memory with a different set of cues. 4) when you can play the piece through without music, you are not done, now comes the best part, the part I call “sculpting”. You have managed to memorize a piece of music, now you must determine how “you” play it, similar to but different from others; what details you think are worth expressing in your own way, how they really work in terms of a successful performance, because that’s where you’re going with it all. 6) perform the piece anywhere in public, like at a piano store. Amaze some salesman that thinks you can’t play. More amazingly, and courageously, plan and actually put on a piano recital somewhere in your area. CHARGE MONEY FOR IT even if it’s a minimal charge. After all you will have to cover your expenses; rental; of the hall, the piano, the tuning, the advertising, etc. If it makes you feel better, get someone else to share a concert stage with you or two or three others. This is the kind of activity that needs promotion about two or three months ahead of time and plan to do two or three concerts not just one as the second and third will probably be better than your first one. Good luck and smiles to all who try this. I’ve done it, loved it, and will certainly do it again.

Subject: Re: Perfect or Play the field From: ryan To: Ed P. Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 16:41:39 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: Two hours of practice time per day is great; I wish I had that much time:-) The important thing is to practice every day, and spend a consistent portion of time doing each activity daily, rather than trying to cram work on one activity into a single day. The time required for each activity really depends on how much you have to do. Did you ask your teacher for advice on how to spend your practice time? I would probably spend roughly 10 to 20 minutes on technical drills and scales, 1 hour on perfecting current materials, and the rest of the time on new material including new assignments and sight-reading on your own. Sight reading on your own is an excellent way to spend some time. It's fun to play through new material, and it builds your sight-reading skills. Ryan

Subject: Re: Perfect or Play the field From: Ed P To: ryan Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 12:21:05 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Ryan, Thank you for the insight. Being new to the piano and trying to make headway against a huge learning curve is, as I have come to learn, a giant task. When I first started lessons (about 15 months ago) the gains in ability seemed to come very rapidly...but now, rather than measuring the gain in miles, yards, or even feet, the unit is much less than an inch. Most of the time it seems like two inches forward and then an inch (or two) backwards. I am finding the time spent perfecting current material consumes so much of my practice time that little time is left for moving forward. I will address this issue with my teacher. We have never really dealt with a practice schedule. She writes my current assignment in a notebook but hasn't provided guidance on exactly how much time to devote to each item. Thanks for taking the time to respond. I am learning much by spending time reading the questions and reponses that people are posting at this site. Have a great day! Ed

Subject: Re: Perfect or Play the field From: Cork To: Ed P Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 13:57:53 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Ed, There are some questions to ask you: how do you go about 'perfecting' your current pieces? Do you just play them through start to finish a couple of times, or do you focus on the parts with which you have the most trouble? One trick that works for many people is to identify the portions of the piece that are most technically challenging for you and drill those portions considerably more than the rest of the music. Once you master the tough parts, the entire work becomes much easier to learn. Another trick is to play the entire piece through at half speed; this is actually difficult to do well. There are other things to try as well. (One great pianist is known for the trick of playing the notes so lightly that the hammers don't touch the strings . . . ) Why don't you discuss some of these thoughts with your teacher? Often, piano instructors forget to teach us HOW to practice, but are happy to give you ideas if you ask. Cork

Subject: Re: Perfect or Play the field From: Ed P To: Cork Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 22:33:12 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Cork, The answer is yes...I do both; play through a piece a time or two (assuming I have some degree of compentence with it) and then come back and focus on the trouble areas. At my skill level usually the entire arrangement can be defined as troubled area. I will ask my teacher to work with me on the HOW to practice suggestion. I am committed to developing some degree of competence with the piano and am willing to pay the price to succeed. Thanks for the guidance. I really appreciated your input. Have a great day! Ed

Subject: Re: Perfect or Play the field From: MacDuff To: Ed P Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 23:17:43 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Often, teachers have their students plow through method book pieces without a great deal of polishing and perfecting because there is considerable overlap in the skills each successive piece develops. When you start playing pieces by master composers, more polishing is usually encouraged.

Subject: Re: Perfect or Play the field From: David Burton To: Ed P Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 23:17:19 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: More points; 90% of success in anything is desire. But of course one must have at least a reasonable set of musical talents; manual dexterity, hand eye coordination, sense of rhythm, sense of musical phrase (Chopin believed this particular faculty was innate and looked for it in all of his students, when they seemed to lack it, he suggested they discontinue studying music). Even if you had musical talent but no desire, you wouldn’t make it. But a repertoire as a series of goals focuses your attention on the tasks to attain it. For instance, a lot of people try to learn Fur Elise as soon as possible or some other simple piece of music. Actually Fur Elise is not a simple piece and contains a fairly wide emotional range which is why it’s a popular goal. There are many fine graded books of piano compositions available. For those just starting, get a teacher who will work with you to read through all of them and master a few of them, have lessons one hour every two weeks steadily, practice at least one half hour a day up to two hours a day, have the teacher give you practice plans and stick to them. Pay your teacher between $20 - $30 an hour if you can every two weeks. Don’t miss any lessons and in a few years you’ll have “pianist consciousness, ” your fingers will be turned up at the ends and you can say with some pride that you can play this or that piece of music. We are mostly about encouraging as many people to take up the SPORT of pianism as at all possible (smiling broadly) as it is good for humanity both as individuals and society as a whole. Tra la!

Subject: You Guys Are Awesome - Thank You! From: Ed P To: David Burton Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 10, 2000 at 12:12:04 (EST) Email Address: ep@web-o.net Message: I can't tell you how much I appreciate the time you took to respond to my question. There is much I have to learn and it is great to be able to come to this forum for additional guidance. I have printed out your recommendations and will refer to it often. Thank you all for your guidance and encouragement! Ed

Subject: Piano Brands? From: KJ To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 11:28:54 (EST) Email Address: kkem@excite.com Message: I am currently shopping for a new console piano. The dealers in my area carry:Yamaha,Kawai,Baldwin,Young Chang,and Samick. I plan on spending less than $4,000, which of the above brands is my best value for the money? Note:The piano is for my daughter who is currently on a keyboard.

Subject: Re: Piano Brands? From: thammer To: KJ Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 01:23:20 (EST) Email Address: johnmarkham@hotmail.com Message: You might get a Baldwin acrosonic for that price. You generally get what you pay for. They all make good pianos.

Subject: Re: Piano Brands? From: jim To: thammer Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 22:12:53 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: You should skip the console and purchase a studio piano. You can buy Kawais and Yamahas (and perhaps Petrof or Weinbach) in that price range new; you also may be able to find a used, taller upright. As a general rule, the taller the upright, the better the sound. Please post if you are unable to find a studio piano in that price range; I would be happy to assist.

Subject: The piano BUZZZZ is gone!!!! From: Joy To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 20:55:33 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hi everyone. My piano tech just left. Said the buzz was due to a loose screw -- he merely tightened it and voilā! The entire bass section was buzzing by the time he got here. Luckily the dry, dehydrating Santa Ana winds were long gone, too. My son just finished playing Gershwin Prelude #1, and he could hear AND feel the difference immediately. Whew!!! He's getting ready for an upcoming Bach competition this weekend. OK, the piano feels like new, and I have discovered Netscape and 14 pt internet type. What a great day! Joy

Subject: Re: The piano BUZZZZ is gone!!!! From: Andrew To: Joy Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 08:19:59 (EST) Email Address: andrew.gan@prodigy.net Message: Joy, Good luck to your son with his competition! May I ask what are his competition pieces? Just curious. Andrew

Subject: Re: The piano BUZZZZ is gone!!!! From: Joy To: Andrew Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 15:51:06 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Each competitor performs one Bach piece. My son is playing the Prelude from the English Suite #2 in A. Thanks for the kind words,Andrew! Joy

Subject: Re: The piano BUZZZZ is gone!!!! From: David Burton To: Joy Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 22:39:06 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: So it was just a loose screw, great! Is your son by any chance interested in the Junior Bach competitions in Carmel? Do they still hold them? Be sure and let us know when a CD of his playing will be available.

Subject: Re: The piano BUZZZZ is gone!!!! From: Joy To: David Burton Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 00:12:54 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Gee, I didn't even know about that one. Is it sponsored by the MTAC (Music Teachers Association of California)? This upcoming one is sponsored by the local chapter here. The winner goes on to play somewhere up north, I don't remember where. He's just happy to be part of this one, not thinking beyond that yet.Only last week there was an academic decathlon, a county wide affair. In a few weeks there will be preparation for the Certificate of Merit thing, and readying some audition tapes for possible summer camps. Yikes, so much to do, so little time. Joy PS: Thanks for remembering about the CD! I have to make sure my son doesn't miss bringing one home from school (he'll be part of a compilation of piano performances by year's end).

Subject: 'raking a smile' From: sarah To: All Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 13:05:24 (EST) Email Address: growly_uk@yahoo.com Message: Pls help! I'm a non-musical student trying to translate an english extract of a novel into french- what does 'raking a smile' on a piano mean in english? I'd guess it means running yr hands up and down the keys: does anyone know? cheers.

Subject: Re: 'raking a smile' From: jodi To: sarah Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 10:53:25 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I was hoping someone would know the answer to your question - I also think you made a good guess. I picture someone with a big smile, looking out into the audience with his hand 'upsidedown' on the keyboard - fingernails sliding from one end of the piano to the other. But I also like the toothbrush definition! :)

Subject: Re: 'raking a smile' From: thammer To: sarah Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 01:46:16 (EST) Email Address: johnmarkham@hotmail.com Message: I thought it referred to brushing your teeth. I never heard it for a piano but I think you made a good guess. Sort of a Jerry Lee Lewis technique. I wil use it in the future.

Subject: Re: 'raking a smile' From: thammer To: sarah Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 01:45:46 (EST) Email Address: johnmarkham@hotmail.com Message: I thought it referred to brushing your teeth. I never heard it for a piano but I think you made a good guess. Sort of a Jerry Lee Lewis technique. I wil use it in the future.

Subject: YAMAHA C1 WHAT $$$$$$$$ IS GOOD ??????? From: Andrea To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 17:04:32 (EST) Email Address: idalinagonscalves@hotmail.com Message: I would like to know how old YAMAHA'S C1 line is. Is it reasonable to assume that I might be able to find this piano in very good condition for about $ 8,000. Thank you. As a woman looking for a grand piano, I can use all the assistance in the world :)

Subject: Re: YAMAHA C1 WHAT $$$$$$$$ IS GOOD ??????? From: thammer To: Andrea Date Posted: Wed, Feb 09, 2000 at 01:14:09 (EST) Email Address: johnmarkham@hotmail.com Message: Used, maybe, but new, I doubt it. I have not seen anything new for less than 12000. Try Samick or Kawai. Good luck.

Subject: Re: YAMAHA C1 WHAT $$$$$$$$ IS GOOD ??????? From: David Burton To: Andrea Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 17:14:11 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: $8K is an excellent deal for a C1 if it's brand new. A Yamaha C1 5'3' baby grand retails for no more than $16,750. For that money I'd much rather have an Estonia 5'4' grand at $11.9K, better bass, etc. Do I think that the Estonia is $4K more of a piano than that Yamaha C1? You bet! Contact Beethoven Piano in New York City and ask them. They ship anywhere. Is this a plug? You bet it is!

Subject: Re: YAMAHA C1 WHAT $$$$$$$$ IS GOOD ??????? From: JK To: Andrea Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 07:33:51 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Andrea, The Yamaha C1 is a current model.It was not discontinued. The C1 has been in the Yamaha line-up for approx 5 years. C1(5'3') replaced G1(5'3'), C2(5'8') replaced G2(5'7'). The 'G' series was discontinued. Pick up a copy of 'The Piano Book' by Larry Fine,3rd edition 'Green' cover. Hope you find what your looking for. JK

Subject: Re: YAMAHA C1 WHAT $$$$$$$$ IS GOOD ??????? From: sam lewis piano To: Andrea Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 19:48:12 (EST) Email Address: samlewis@peoplepc.com Message: Andrea- My references show the C1 to be dicontinued in 1997. At the time is was discontinued, it listed at about $20,000. The $8000. seems reasonable, but that would depend upon age and condition. Find a serial number, and pay a tech to check it for you; it's worth the money. (I charge a service call of $40. to do this, just for a reference point for you) Good luck. Sam

Subject: Piano Pricing From: kj To: All Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 13:00:05 (EST) Email Address: kkem@excite.com Message: How much mark up is on a new piano? How much off the retail price should I expect to be able to negotiate at a dealer?

Subject: Re: Piano Pricing From: jodi To: kj Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 13:45:32 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: That depends on the dealer, and on the brand of piano they are selling. I have been to some that have a ridiculous 'retail price' and they then tell you what the 'sale price' is. I have been to other dealers that start out with a price closer to this sale price. If you want to find out the 'standard list price' (the one you then bargain down anywhere from 10 - 30% on) you need to get ahold of the current (99-2000, I think) supplement to The Piano Book: Buying and Owning a New or Used Piano. Or, post the piano brands you are looking at here, and maybe someone can tell you what a fair price is for them.

Subject: Re: Piano Pricing From: jim To: jodi Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 22:05:49 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: I agree with Jodi, with the caveat that dealers seem to pay in the neighborhood of 50% of the price listed in the back of the Larry Fine supplement for the piano. Of course, they have overhead and expenses, so a reasonable price usually is about 75% of what is in the back of the book (Steinways excepted as getting discounts on them besides their standard 15% off sales is very difficult). Sometimes, you can get a great deal and get really close to half the price in the back of the Fine Book. For example, I know of someone in Pennsylvania paying $4900 for a Yamaha U-1, even though it lists for almost $7200 in the book. Another example is Jonathan of this forum, who paid under $30k for a Mason and Hamlin BB that the Fine Book lists as $49.8k.

Subject: New piano problems From: Vincent To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 06:54:16 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I am an adult beginner and I just purchased a new Charles Walter piano. Upon delivery, I noticed a couple things that didn't seem right to me. I have communicated these concerns to my dealer and I was told that I shouldn't be worried and that they will be rectified upon my first (free) tuning. (1) Three keys do not return properly when pressed (first B, C, D above middle C). This is making my practicing very difficult. (2) There is a large 'chip' or 'crack' in the exteme upper left of the soundboard. I was told that it is on the 'non-speaking' part of the soundboard. (3) The fallboard's keylock hardware is loose and can probably be pulled out by hand. As I am new to the piano, I have a feeling that I am going to find more of these anomolies as time goes on. My question is.... Should I expect to see these things in a new piano? It just doesn't seem right. I should mention that this piano was NOT a floor model; it was ordered and shipped from the factory. I can't believe that the dealer didn't find these problems upon receipt of the piano and I, a beginner, did. I have a feeling that the dealer never checked it at all. I suppose that I should give the dealer the benefit of the doubt and wait until I have my first tuning before I take any further action. But then again, why should I have to have a new piano repaired? This doesn't make sense to me. I just have this sickening feeling whenever I think about it. This piano wasn't cheap (for me) and from all that I've read (in this forum, in particular) and heard, Walter is a quality instrument. I apoligize for this long-winded post but any thoughts on my situation would be greatly appreciated. Thank you. Vincent

Subject: Re: New piano problems From: bpan To: Vincent Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 18:24:06 (EST) Email Address: bpan@eng.sun.com Message: Hi all expert piano players and musicians: I am expecting my Yamaha baby grand to be delivered any day now. What can I do to avoid problems like that? Should I request to open the box and check it out by an independent technician before they deliver my piano to my home or I can save the trouble and count on the quality of the piano and just let them deliver to my home in the box? Thanks! Becky.I

Subject: Re: New piano problems From: jodi To: bpan Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 19:10:47 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Your piano needs to be delivered to the piano store, taken out, and checked over by the technicians in the store, AND by you BEFORE it is delivered to your house. Even high quality pianos like the Charles Walter and the Yamaha need dealer prep. That is part of what you are paying for.

Subject: Re: New piano problems From: Patti To: Vincent Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 11:30:44 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The dealer says the large 'chip' or 'crack' in the extreme upper left of the soundboard is 'on the 'non-speaking' part of the soundboard'. Even if this is true and not a problem, which I seriously doubt, 1)it could develop into a bigger crack later on and 2) if you decide to sell the piano years from now, this problem would be very questionable to a potential buyer and you probably will will have trouble selling it. Absolutely insist on a replacement! If they are uncooperative do as others have said & tell Charles Walter, contact the Better Business Bureau and other consumer agencies, if you have any attorney friends have them write them a threatening letter, etc. I would think telling Charles Walter would do the trick though. A reputable company such as them doesn't want their good name marred by a stupid dealer.

Subject: Re: Called Charles Walter From: Vincent To: Patti Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 13:26:03 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Dear friends, I just called the Walter company and here is their explanation: There are two 3/8 inch through holes drilled in the soundboard -- upper left and upper right. They are used for alignment purposes during the manufacturing process. These holes should be cleanly drilled. Unfortunately, the hole in the upper left on my piano is not clean. They drill apparently 'lifted' some of the wood around the through hole resulting in the raised 'chip'. I was told that the even though the upper left part of the soundboard IS a 'speaking' area, I shouldn't be concerned -- he assured me that it would not have any effect on sound -- now or ever. He would recommend having a technician apply some glue to the under side of the 'chip' to stabilize it. Yikes! (Opposed to breaking off the chip and filling the area with some sort of filler.) I don't feel comfortable about having 'work' done on the soundboard of my NEW piano! I plan on sending the Walter company photos of the defect and follow that up with another call or as many calls as it takes. I will also hold the charge to my credit card in dispute until the matter is resolved. If anyone out there owns a Walter 1500, please check these holes. Are they cleanly drilled or has some of the surrounding wood been pulled up? Maybe this happens frequently and it really isn't a problem. ??? Thanks again for your concern and your suggestions. I'll let you know how it all turns out. -Vincent

Subject: Re: Called Charles Walter From: jim To: Vincent Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 21:55:46 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: Vincent -- Way to stick up for yourself; there is no way that you should have to deal with that defect. Make sure that you take notes on all of your conversations with Walter so that you can have a detailed accurate summary of all attempts that you made to have Walter remedy the problem. If I were Walter, I would replace the piano, if for no other reason than to keep problems like this off the web! Jim

Subject: Re: Called Charles Walter From: Rob S. To: Vincent Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 12:26:40 (EST) Email Address: marblearchltd@yahoo.com Message: Vincent, I've been following your concern for your new Charles Walter piano, and it's too bad you are facing this difficulty. At least you have the support and insight of the folks in this forum! Keep in mind that the chipping at the hole/s in your soundboard can't or shouldn't be considered incidental to the piano's construction. If Charles Walter Co., accepts this, it would make me wonder what else, in the sense of quality control, they accept as incidental, or not worthy of corrective measures. Judging from the response CW gave you, they don't seem too concerned about this chipping problem which could be easily avoided. My company owns two furniture manufacturing facilities in Italy, and we have a variety of ways to solve such problems, from the use of specialty tapes that are drilled through and don't allow the splitting or cracking, (3M makes such tapes in the USA), to drilling through wood blocks afixed above and below the target. Additionally, bits and sanders must be sharpened and changed often, or the problem will be exacerbated. This is by no means a comprehensive list, but since other piano manufactures don't have chronic problems with chipped or cracked soundboards, we can assume the problem is unique to CW's manufacturing procedures. In sum, there are solutions to this problem which are successful with laminated or solid woods. It seems odd that Charles Walter wouldn't be aware of them. Good luck.

Subject: Re: Called Charles Walter From: Vincent To: Rob S. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 12:49:26 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Yes, the Walter rep. did seem unaware of the drilling problems; he said that he would report it to the appropriate folks on the factory floor. I totally agree with you Rob. The respondents in this thread have been exceptionally helpful to me. I no longer feel that I am facing these problems alone. -Vincent

Subject: Re: Called Charles Walter From: Dave B To: Vincent Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 16:09:33 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Vincent, A wood boring drill bit is designed to eliminate this problem, and cuts the circumference of the drilled circle at almost the same instant that the triangular point of the bit is penetrating the center portion of the circle to be drilled. Thus, any splintering from the center of the drill bit is controlled by the outer edge of the drill bit which is traveling along the circumference of the circle to be drilled. If the wood boring drill bit is sharpened and used with the right rpms, there should be none or only very fine cosmetic splintering at the surface that can be easily sanded. This technique has been used in fine cabinet making for some time with solid uniform wood (not particle board or reconstituted wood such as plywood which splinters very easily regardless). A regular drill bit (3/8') drills the entire diameter of the circle at the same time and thus, splintering is much more likely to happen. So, perhaps this is operator error. If not operator error, I would consider that the wood that composes the soundboard is of inferior quality or has not been seasoned and dried properly. This may mean the start of other problems such as numerous tuning or even more serious problems.. All and all, do not let anyone but a Charles Walter tech or a Charles Walter designated tech repair the soundboard of this piano due to third party liability issues. Keep the music store away unless Charles Walter (not you) directs them. If Charles Walter is willing to still honor the original warranty upon repairs and claim that it is like new, there may be little that you can do. I suggest that you have an independent piano tuner or repairer look at the discrepancies prior and after repairs have been made by Charles Walter. There may be or may not be worse problems that you have not yet observed or has not surfaced. Sadly, the real question for you is 'Will you be happy and worry free while playing your beautiful piano for the next 10 years after repairs?' Good luck to both you and Charles Walter. Hopefully, Charles Walter is taking corrective action with their manufacturer.

Subject: Re: Called Charles Walter From: ryan To: Vincent Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 15:39:50 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: The person you talked to is correct, it won't have any effect on the sound of the piano. The main problem is the visual appearance of the chip, which is what could hurt the resale value of the piano, as well as your piece of mind knowing that there is a bad looking chip in the soundboard. If they can fix it so that you can't tell it was chipped, then that's probably all that needs to be done. Most of the vibrations in the soundboard radiate away from it, not across is, so small imperfections and even small cracks don't make any difference. However, a large crack that radiates out from a hole can adversely effect the sound. A technician could probably make the call whether the chip looks like it will ever radiate a crack, but I doubt it would since there isn't any pressure on it.

Subject: Re: Called Charles Walter From: Cork To: ryan Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 21:54:24 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: The person you talked to is correct, it won't have any effect on the sound of the piano. The main problem is the visual appearance of the chip, which is what could hurt the resale value of the piano, as well as your piece of mind knowing that there is a bad looking chip in the soundboard. If they can fix it so that you can't tell it was chipped, then that's probably all that needs to be done. Most of the vibrations in the soundboard radiate away from it, not across is, so small imperfections and even small cracks don't make any difference. However, a large crack that radiates out from a hole can adversely effect the sound. A technician could probably make the call whether the chip looks like it will ever radiate a crack, but I doubt it would since there isn't any pressure on it. --- Agree with Ryan. If the factory drills holes there in every soundboard, it will not affect the sound. As Ryan suggests, a repair to stabilize the area makes the most sense here. You might be interested to know that most grands have one or more holes drilled in the MIDDLE of the soundboard, smack in the most important section. Interestingly, the soundboards in most (if not all) pianos are too large in any case. Yes, I know: I'm just full of useless trivia. Cork

Subject: Re: Called Charles Walter From: jodi To: Vincent Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 13:37:28 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: How big is this 'chip'? Can you take some photos and post them here so we can see? (do you know anyone with a digital camera?) Jodi

Subject: Call Charles Walter & report the dealer!! From: Mat D. To: Vincent Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 23:29:10 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: That is a sure way of getting their attention. You absolutely deserve a replacement piano (nothing less) a crack in the soundboard (anywhere) is totally unacceptable! best of luck, Mat D.

Subject: Re: Call Charles Walter & report the dealer!! From: David Burton To: Mat D. Date Posted: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 13:14:15 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Yeah! What Mat said. And do it NOW before they pull some fast one on you and legally make you keep the beast. It's high time some of these dealers got the message; why should we put up with this? It also reflects poorly on Charles Walter whom I'm sure would be pretty angry about it if they knew, 'non speaking part of the soundboard' INDEED! and Charles Walter SHOULD know just how they are being misrepresented, RIGHT AWAY. Don't delay.

Subject: Re: New piano problems From: Vincent To: Vincent Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 19:58:42 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: (Sorry for previous empty reply -- I'm kind of new at this!) Thanks to all who responded. I am truly touched by your concern. You've confirmed what I've felt all along -- I shouldn't have to settle for inferior service. BTW, I failed to mention in my original post that despite my problems, Walter pianos have a wonderfully warm tone. I look forward to resolving the problems and getting on to playing. Thanks again. I hope I can be as helpful to all of you someday! -Vincent

Subject: Re: New piano problems From: jodi To: Vincent Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 20:11:06 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I'm so glad you like your piano - Please let us know how this all turns out! Jodi

Subject: Re: New piano problems From: Vincent To: Vincent Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 19:43:42 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message:

Subject: Re: DEMAND A REPLACEMENT NOW!!! From: David Burton To: Vincent Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 15:59:26 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Lack of dealer prep, selling a piano that hasn't seen the showroom floor let alone the store's technical staff, a piano being dropped in transit, what are we going to do to get these dealers to WAKE UP and realize their responsibility? Vincent has every right to demand a replacement piano immediately. There should be NO cracks in the soundboard for God's sake! 'Not in the speaking area'? Stupid! What do they take us for? Vincent, go for them right away!!!

Subject: Re: DEMAND A REPLACEMENT NOW!!! From: Jim To: David Burton Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 16:54:12 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: I agree with David 100%. Moreover, I hope that you paid for it on a credit card so that you can protest the charge and let the dealer stew for awhile! Jim

Subject: Re: New piano problems From: John D. To: Vincent Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 15:28:14 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Vincent, While it may not seem right that a quality piano should have problems such as slow/sticking keys and lose fallboard hardware, they aren't serious problems. I wouldn't have a problem with a dealer fixing these items. However, I agree with the other posters that the soundboard chip/crack would concern me. There is no reason why the soundboard should not be in perfect condition when a piano is delivered. I agree with the poster who mentioned taking pictures and having them developed ASAP. Also request the dealer come out immediately so that they don't blame you for the soundboard problem. I don't get a good feeling hearing a dealer say 'that is not the speaking part of the soundboard (so don't worry about it)'. I definitely would not wait until the first tuning if I were you. John D.

Subject: Re: New piano problems From: Gabi To: Vincent Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 14:24:50 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Vincent, Although I don't know that much about pianos myself, to me, your concern #2 ('There is a large 'chip' or 'crack' in the exteme upper left of the soundboard') would be enough to ask the dealer for a replacement. Just my humble opinion...

Subject: Re: New piano problems From: ryan To: Gabi Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 14:36:45 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: Me too. I would wonder if it was dropped during shipping...

Subject: Re: New piano problems From: Dave B To: Vincent Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 14:22:22 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Vincent, I purchased a new upright piano (~4K) 6 months ago and would have been very unhappy to have keys sticking and not be able to play the piano or learn effectively. I do not believe that it is acceptable and should have been fixed in the music store prior to delivery. Regarding the crack or dent in the soundboard, I would notify the piano manufuacturer and document the condition with some dated film as well as the piano dealer. Keep a copy for yourself. You should have some worry as to how the soundboard was damaged (impact? dropped?). There might be secondary damage that is not clearly visible at this time which could later surface and wood cracks have a tendency to propagate.

Subject: Re: New piano problems From: jodi To: Vincent Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 12:35:37 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Wow - I wouldn't be happy either. We hired a tech to look at the new Walter grand we are buying (before we bought) and found a key that had a crack in it - way back under the action where you couldn't see it normally. We all agreed that it was probably only cosmetic, but it is being replaced anyway. There were also several pieces of loose hardware that caused some buzzing, but were easy to tighten up. We were reassured by our tech that all of this was normal in a new piano. I would guess that your key problems are easy to fix - and probably normal prep things - which your dealer should have done BEFORE he/she delivered the piano to you. (Did they deliver the piano to the dealer first, or straight to you?) As far as a crack or a chip in the soundboard - that would be unacceptable to me. Hopefully some of the dealers and techs that frequent this page will comment. My feeling is that you should be able to return it and get one that isn't cracked. The Charles Walter has a good warranty, so you shouldn't have to live with any of this. Please give your dealer a chance to make this right. My mom recently bought a new Yamaha, and it required a couple of trips from two different techs before she was satisfied. (and she requested a different tech the second time - at no cost to her) If you are still not satisfied, I suppose you could call the Charles Walter Company directly with your complaints. (Others may disagree with this tactic) According to everything I have heard and read, they are a great company to deal with. They are family owned and run, and certainly wouldn't want someone unhappy with the quality of their pianos. I called them with a question about the finish on my piano, and they were friendly and helpful. Here is their phone number: 219/293-8242 And here is a question for all of you reading this: I am unsure about this whole 'order one from the factory' idea - aren't you allowed to check the piano out BEFORE you buy it?

Subject: sound on a Walter piano From: cy To: All Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 15:03:14 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: We decided to get a charles walter 1500 after research and reading this forum. Delivered last week, and I am happy about the sound. Although we will check the soundboard cracking problem since it is mentioned in another thread of messages. I have a concern, since I don't know anything about piano or playing one. If I hit a key one by one (rather than playing a continuous piece of music) especially to the right of middle c note section, I can hear the music note and some kind of the string vibrating sound (excuse me for not being able to describe it very well) and it seems like I can hear the hammer hitting sound and this string sound echoing inside the cabinet. Is that normal since I am really hitting keys one by one? And should we have an independent technician to check out the piano before it is too late?

Subject: Re: sound on a Walter piano From: jodi To: cy Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 10:38:32 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I would guess that your problem will be able to be fixed the next time the tech is there - just explain what you are hearing to him. The hammer hitting sound might mean that it is loose? (we have one of those in our spinet) How far up are you hearing these string vibrating sounds? The last 12 or 13 white (and the sharps/flats that go with them at the top) don't have a damper (the thing that stops the strings from vibrating after you play them) associated with them, so you get a slight sustain sound after you hit them. This is normal on all pianos - and there is a reason for it. (balance or something - Ryan? Cork? David?) Let us know what your tech finds! Jodi

Subject: Re: sound on a Walter piano From: jodi To: cy Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 19:20:49 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Has the piano been regulated and tuned yet by the store? Are they coming to do that for you?

Subject: Re: sound on a Walter piano From: cy To: jodi Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 10:09:41 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Has the piano been regulated and tuned yet by the store? Are they coming to do that for you? --- The dealer said that it was regulated and tuned in store before delievered and will send a technician in 4-6 wks to do it again. I am just concerned if it is like that on all vertical pianos, and if it is, is that something that can be fixed by technician.

Subject: Re: sound on a Walter piano From: Lyn To: cy Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 17:23:22 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hello Cy, Your description sounds very similar to a problem our church piano (Schafer & Sons 5'10' grand) tends to have periodically. Our tech said the cause was the dampers weren't seated properly. I think it's a pretty easy thing to fix because our tech fixes it with no extra charge. The only problem is the abnormal sustaining returns after a short period of time. Our tech told us that humidity can sometimes cause this problem, too. I know very little about mechanics of the piano so I don't know if this is correct info or not. Definitely, your tech should be alerted to the problem. It's not a normal occurrance, but as far as I know it can be fixed. I'm not a technician so I can only base this on the what our technician says about a similar problem. I wish I could help more. How about it all you techs out there, is this info correct??? Lyn

Subject: Story and Clark From: nsb To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 16:47:02 (EST) Email Address: piano_search@hotmail.com Message: What does everyone think about a Story and Clark Cambridge 4'8' used BABY grand? How about Story and Clark in general? Thanks.

Subject: Special Orders From: Angelique To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 09:13:14 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I posted several messages a few weeks ago, before I had really started my piano search. You were all very helpful. Now that the hunt has actually begun, I have another question. I visited a Mason & Hamlin dealer last weekend, played the A (which I loved) and the BB (which I loved even more and wish my apartment were larger or that it was just a bit smaller!). Before I began to discuss price with the dealer, I asked if the A was available in a finish other than ebony. He told me that it comes in both a satin and a polished mahogany, but that those finishes are special order only, that no dealer would have them on the floor, that a special order would take three months, that I'd have to make a substantial deposit, and that I should consider the A in ebony if I liked it (which I did). I told him I would think about it, but would first like to hear how other Forum contributors feel about the information I was given. It didn't please me, but may be I'm just impatient.

Subject: Re: Special Orders From: David Burton To: Angelique Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 11:02:17 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Anything that a dealer doesn't have in stock is a 'special order' situation. As for taking three months, yes from the factory that would probably be so. However what an enterprising dealer could do, probably for some kind of fee ahead of time, is to look for a new Mahogany A, like those I saw at Faust Harrison in New York, another good place to ask, see my website at www.geocities.com/vienna/studio/5505. What sometimes can be done is that a dealer will be able to get another dealer to cooperate on the sale of an instrument someone wants. There's less money in it for both of them, and usually the customer pays close to suggested retail, which is higher, but the customer gets what they want faster that way. Of course you could just travel around until you find a new Mahogany A somewhere else, as at Faust Harrison. Good luck, the M&H A's a beautiful pianos.

Subject: Re: Special Orders From: William To: Angelique Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 09:54:36 (EST) Email Address: mtrock24@aol.com Message: I have just purchased a new BB and during the process spoke several times with the M&H national sales manager. I found him to be incredibly helpful and patient and thus would recommend you speak directly with him. Go to Mason and Hamlin.com where you will find the necessary numbers, he is located in Sacramento and his name is Cecil.

Subject: Re: Special Orders From: jodi To: William Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 10:52:49 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: And check out the Mahogany 'Monticello' (I think thats what it is called?) - it has mahogany keys with ebony tops and is just GORGEOUS. I played an A with that finish, and I think Mat put up a picture of the BB in it awhile ago - do you still have that link around, Mat?

Subject: Soundboard Replacement From: JIm To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 08, 2000 at 03:16:08 (EST) Email Address: kjbark@telusplanet.net Message: I have an old canadian made Palmer upright thatI am restoring from the ground up. At this point I have the plate removed and am deciding whether to repair my three cracks through the soundboard (one of them has gone completely through the treble bridge ) or do a replacement. I am looking for some suggestions/stories to aid in the decision. Also where I can get some info on purchasing a new one.

Subject: Cracks in Bridge From: Carl To: All Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 18:53:07 (EST) Email Address: cmkel@snip.net Message: I just inherited a Lester 'Betsey Ross' Spinet. I have not had it tuned yet, however I noticed several keys produce a 'Tinny' sound. Being inquisitive I pulled off the front panel and found that the sound was eminating from the bridge area which exhibited many cracks in the pin area. The bridge appears to be three layers thick and the cracks are only present in the outermost layer. Is this common? Expensive to fix? Worth it? Thanks in advance! Carl-

Subject: Re: Cracks in Bridge From: Granholm Bros To: Carl Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 20:54:13 (EST) Email Address: gbros@wanweb.net Message: I just inherited a Lester 'Betsey Ross' Spinet. I have not had it tuned yet, however I noticed several keys produce a 'Tinny' sound. Being inquisitive I pulled off the front panel and found that the sound was eminating from the bridge area which exhibited many cracks in the pin area. The bridge appears to be three layers thick and the cracks are only present in the outermost layer. Is this common? Expensive to fix? Worth it? Thanks in advance! Carl- --- I'm assuming this is the bass bridge, where the wound strings for the lower notes are located. It is a common enough problem, and it is expensive to fix, because to do it right you need to replace the bridge or recap it at least, and to do that you must remove the strings and then get the old bridge off, which can be quite a bit of work. In the case of your Betsy Ross, bass bridge replacement could easily cost more than the piano is worth. There is one other option you might want to investigate before you make a final decision. Bridges that are not badly cracked can sometimes be successfully repaired with epoxy. A piano technician could make that call for you after an inspection of the damage. John Granholm Granholm Bros Piano Roseburg OR

Subject: Hanon & Music From: Cork To: All Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 14:23:45 (EST) Email Address: cvdh@my-Deja.com Message: David wrote: 'Hanon on the other hand has a significant disadvantage. It tends to foster a notion that an unconscious and repetitious practice of finger exercises will build good pianism. I contend that it doesn't and that on the other hand a conscious attention to every note played, to the fingering used in a phrase, to the forearm and elbow motion required, to breathing and posture are the way to attain optimum pianism.' All I can say is 'AMEN!' The day I burned my copy of Hanon was a turning point in my music. I believe that any technique an amateur pianist wants to develop can be better acquired by performing real music than by messing with those tedious, mind-numbing exercises. May the Hanon exercises rot in a bad place for eternity. Of course, that's just my opinion. ;-) Cork

Subject: Re: Hanon & Music From: jodi To: Cork Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 11:05:32 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I do have a similar question to CC's - do you guys (Cork, Ryan, David) still do scales?

Subject: Re: Hanon & Music From: ryan To: jodi Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 11:47:38 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: I don't do scales as much as I should, but I always come back to them when I've been away from the piano for a while. I have a drill that rips through all major and minor scales in 4 octaves that takes less than 10 minutes. Well, they used to rip, now they sortof limp:-) Same with arpeggios. I think another benefit of scales that hasn't been mentioned yet is that they really work on keeping the hands together in sync.

Subject: Re: Hanon & Music From: Cork To: jodi Date Posted: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 09:24:56 (EST) Email Address: klvdh@ticnet.com Message: The two primary values of playing scales are in teaching: 1. speed and dexterity, 2. the appropriate fingering for each scale. My philosophy is that once you've learned #2, that time is better spent playing pieces with scales rather than scales. Keep in mind that I'm always limited on practice time, and I need to get as much good work in as possible in the small amount of time I have available. Cork

Subject: Re: Hanon & Music From: David Burton To: Cork Date Posted: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 12:40:15 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Cork says, 'Keep in mind that I'm always limited on practice time, and I need to get as much good work in as possible in the small amount of time I have available.' Oh absolutely! And that's why I for one have to put less emphasis on technique building exercises and more on learning technically challenging pieces. Just about have Chopin's Nocturne in G Major memorized. This one is actually a bit humorous or a mix of laughter and sadness, with the counterintuitive fingering of the thirds in the right hand that must be mastered or you just can't play it very fast, and the long very slow interludes that have to be played as if you're in the middle of a hot summer night in the deep south. Almost got it, then I can go on and concentrate on the next one. It will take me another 150 times playing this piece through before it is 'sculpted' to be performed in public though.

Subject: Re: Hanon & Music From: CC To: Cork Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 01:19:11 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I was never familiar with the Hanon exercises because neither of the two piano teachers I had used them. They both, however, made me do a LOT of scale work. I know at the time, I thought it was completely senseless because no matter how many octaves I had to play or how fast, my fingers flew over the keys and it was so easy, it seemed like a big waste of my lesson time when I could be playing 'real' music! How could anybody NOT be able to play scales?! Now that I've just started up again after being away from it for 15+ years, imagine my surprise that I can't even play scales the way I used to. Maybe this is a dumb question, but I'm curious, how does the scalework that I was used to as a kid compare to playing Hanon exercises or Chopin's preludes? Tonight I changed my practice time to be almost all scalework and only a little time on my music and I have to admit it did seem to help. As someone who wants very much to improve dexterity and coordination, I can't tell you guys how helpful all of your posts are on this subject. I plan on trying everything!!

Subject: Re: Hanon & Music From: ryan To: CC Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 11:47:06 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: I totally forgot to mention scales. The ability to play all the major and minor scales and arpeggios is an extremely important skill, that I see as a pre-requisite to starting more advance studies like Chopin's preludes or etudes. For example, by the third year my students (non-transfer) can solidly play at least 5 major and 5 minor scales, and know the scale pattern so well that they can pick out a major or minor scale in any key. Returning pianists can gain back a lot of ground with daily scale and arpeggio practice. They can help make it easier to play in different keys, because your fingers are familiar with the notes that make up every key. They also improve finger dexterity and can help smooth out your playing.

Subject: Re: Hanon & Music From: PhilippeH To: ryan Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 17:35:05 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Ryan, How fast should you be able to play your scales and arpeggios before considering playing Chopin's preludes or etudes. Can you provide me with some metronomic indications? Regards Philippe

Subject: Re: Hanon & Music From: jodi To: CC Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 11:26:08 (EST) Email Address: jodi@radon.chem.uidaho.edu Message: CC- Hanon is not quite like doing scales (and after talking to my mom - I realized that there are several edited versions of Hanon - she has one where the notes are NOT all even) The versions I have - (books I and II) are all in the key of C - and I am sitting here trying to figure out how to explain it to you: You start at the bottom end of the piano, hands working in unison (I'm sure I'm not using the correct terms for all of this) and an octave apart, and you do this five fingered set of notes up, then down - but on the down part you end up on the note above the one you started at (you start on C, so you would end up on D) then you go up and come back down again, this time ending on E - and so on - until you get to the top end of the piano, then you come back down again in a similar pattern. So it is sort of like a scale. There are many different 'patterns' - and I especially like the ones that work the 4th and 5th fingers, because they are the ones I have the hardest time controlling. I like Ryans idea of transposing them to other keys - that would also be very useful. The next time you are in a music store, check them out - since my above explanation probably makes no sense at all! You don't have to follow Hanon's directions to drill for hours (do you all REALLY think there is a risk of carpal tunnel syndrome?!) but they are a good warm-up for those of us who aren't spectacular sight readers. I AM working on sight-reading - but I'm using some lovely Schumann - the G. Henle Verlag edition of 'Scenes for Childhood' & 'Album for the Young'.

Subject: Re: Hanon & Music From: David Burton To: jodi Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 16:35:12 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Jodi, aren't Henle Verlag editions great? They are printed better than anyone else's and the books stay open even when new because the are all sewn in signatures. I have several of them but they are expensive and have to be special ordered from most places. Anyway about scales and other things. First Bach's rule. Don't know if it's J.S. or C.P.E., I think it's the latter. It's Third finger on e flat Fourth finger on b flat Both hands. Do all scales that way and they are a snap to learn. Yes I do scale work, especially if I haven't been at the keyboard in a few days. As for transposing Hanon, yes I think it has merit, but then so does playing the blues in all twenty four major and minor keys. Anyone ever tried that, with or without a rhythm section? As a final note, (grin) playing technical exercises has a greater possibility of causing injury from spraining or over exerting a finger muscle or a metacarpol muscle, a painful experience, one I haven't had, but have heard about. If it happens, go run some hot water and put your hand or hands in a bowl of it and just relax for ten or fifteen minutes. Stay away from the piano for a day or two. Robert Schumann wrecked his hands by fastening weights on them while playing. He thought it would strengthen his playing. NOT. I'm not one for excessive technical exercises I must be honest. I'd far prefer mastering a highly technical piece that does the same things but which has better music content. That's why of all the technical exercises, I like Czerny the most.

Subject: Re: Hanon & Music From: ryan To: David Burton Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 17:28:41 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: Here is a good one for the rumor mill. Legend has it that Schumann wrecked a finger or hand by using some strengthening device invented by Clara's father. I was reading an account of this recently, and apparently there is no direct record that the victim of this strengthening device was Robert Schuman, just that a student of Clara's father was injured. Furthermore, there is strong evidence that Robert suffered bad side effects from a murcury cure for a 'social disease', which pretty much ended any hopes of a concert career. I can't remember where I dug this up off hand, but it was interesting reading:-)

Subject: Re: Hanon & Music From: David Burton To: ryan Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 20:41:07 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Ryan informs us, 'Furthermore, there is strong evidence that Robert suffered bad side effects from a MERCURY cure for a 'social disease', which pretty much ended any hopes of a concert career. I can't remember where I dug this up off hand, but it was interesting reading:-)' Yeah, first time I heard anyone make a direct connection between Mercury and Schumann, it explains his MADNESS now doesn't it?

Subject: Re: Hanon & Music From: Hakki To: Cork Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 03, 2000 at 14:59:25 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I respect all opinions on this subject. But on the other hand I can't hold myself thinking about why Hanon exercises are so widely known almost by everybody playing piano all over the world. Regards, Hakki.

Subject: Re: Hanon & Music From: jodi To: Cork Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 15:13:14 (EST) Email Address: jodi@radon.chem.uidaho.eud Message: Oh well - guess I have to disagree with you too! Hanon is kind of like learning to 'color within the lines'. Not much of an outlet for creativity, but wonderful for hand/eye coordination. And getting good at it doesn't mean you have to STIFLE your creativity! Of course, I was not grilled on the Hanon exercises when I was learning to play, so I have no negative feelings about them. I came upon them as an adult, and find them very useful for improving manual dexterity. And so does my husband - he has started up again after a 25 year break!

Subject: Re: Hanon & Music From: ryan To: jodi Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 03, 2000 at 13:07:29 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: The question of the value of Hanon is hotly debated. I was never assigned any Hanon excersises by any of my teachers, who I believe thought it had limited value. However, I generally give my students one or two Hanon exercises to work on, because I think it has some value early on in learning various five-finger patterns, and finger control. Committing typical five-finger patterns to muscle memory is part of early learning and can really help with playing and reading later on. I usually keep a student in a particular excercise for 3 weeks, until they can play it evenly at a reasonable tempo, and I will usually have them transpose the exercise to many different keys. I do not drill the excersices into the ground and I don't follow Hanon's instructions of playing bunches of the excersices in series. I honestly believe that this is a good way to get injured. As far as more advanced students using Hanon drills, I did an experiment 4 years ago to try to decide the relative value of drilling Hanon excersices. I spent three months drilling them just like the instructions said, but I felt like the value started to decrease after a couple of weeks. I also noted a tightness in my left hand that worried me about possible injury. Next I spent 3 months playing 4 or 5 prelude and fugue pairs from Bach's WTC I every day, and found that the benefit actually increased over the course of the 3 months, and it far surpassed Hanon. In fact, I was so excited by the improvement in my dexterity, technique, and sight-reading ability that I continued to play 4 or 5 per day for the couple of years. My final experiment was to use Chopin's Etudes as daily exercises. My goal was to play them slowly at a steady tempo. I started with 1 or 2 per day, and slowly worked up to 4 to 5 per day. Reading through some of the etudes can be difficult, but once you start to get them down they aren't that bad, as long as you play them slow and don't try to sound like Pollini. I found that these had an incredible benefit to my entire technique, including dexterity, accuracty, touch, sight-reading ability. To summarize I think that Bach's WTC and Chopin's Etudes are the best daily exercises for more advanced pianists, and they flat out bury Hanon in what they can do. It takes discipline to stay with them, because many of the pieces are not easy to read at first, but if you stay with it for a couple of years it will vastly improve your sight-reading ability and technique. The Etudes of Chopin are very advanced and out of reach of many intermediate to early-advanced students, so I think Chopin's Preludes can be learned first and still have great value as excersices. In fact, I tend to think of his Preludes more as preludes to the Etudes. In fact, I think the preludes may have more benefit than the Etudes at first because there are more 'touch' pieces that can teach good tone, singing melody, and a cantabile style of playing.

Subject: Re: Hanon & Music From: David Burton To: ryan Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 03, 2000 at 16:02:47 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Ryan states, 'The Etudes of Chopin are very advanced and out of reach of many intermediate to early-advanced students, so I think Chopin's Preludes can be learned first and still have great value as exercises. In fact, I tend to think of his Preludes more as preludes to the Etudes. In fact, I think the preludes may have more benefit than the Etudes at first because there are more 'touch' pieces that can teach good tone, singing melody, and a cantabile style of playing.' Ryan, I want you to know that I applaud your entire post and agree with you completely. However this last statement is perhaps even more true than the rest. Chopin himself, during his lifetime, was more in the business of being a piano teacher than anything else, even though his compositions were to have enormous influence. He didn't do much concertizing, hated crowds, attention, etc. He much preferred small soirees, salons, etc. Anyway it is well known that he usually did not offer his Etudes to be played by anyone who had not first mastered his other works, particularly the Preludes. It is perhaps no coincidence that Dover put the Preludes and Etudes together in one volume, the Preludes first. Another exercise technician who is rarely mentioned is Ernst von Dohnanyi. His Essential Finger Exercises bear lookinginto. I have found them useful for getting back some dexterity after long periods of being away from the keyboard. I also have Hanon and Brahms' exercises which are excruciatingly hard. Czerny is worthwhile in my opinion as well.

Subject: Re: Hanon & Music From: Cork To: jodi Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 15:25:13 (EST) Email Address: cvdh@my-Deja.com Message: Once again I am taught the lesson that many of my strongest beliefs, while correct for me, cannot be extrapolated to the world in general. I defer graciously to anyone who has extracted something of value from Hanon. Perhaps I'm just too lazy to mess with something that I cannot enjoy. In any case, I've found that practicing scale runs in Chopin, for instance, have given me precisely the sort of hand/eye coordination that Hanon failed to provide me. And instead of spending my precious practice time on exercises, I've learned and/or polished pieces that will always be useful repertoire. Truly, it's differences of opinion that make life interesting! Regards, Cork

Subject: Re: Hanon & Music From: jodi To: Cork Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 15:46:23 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Well said again, Cork! My teacher told me that the Chopin Etudes were all exercises in disguise - so hopefully one day when I can actually play the ones I've been working on (and off forever) all the way through without stopping, I may feel the same way you do. Until then, I'll keep my date with C.L. Hanon. ;)

Subject: kohler and chase From: tb To: All Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 17:22:26 (EST) Email Address: odisgirl@webtv.net Message: we have an old upright piano that was left at the house we bought. the name on it is 'Kohler and Chase'. I haven't been able to find any info about this manufacture. any help,info or leads would be greatly appreciated. thanx much.

Subject: Sales Help From: Bruce To: JK Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 16:07:37 (EST) Email Address: Peano86381@aol.com Message: JK: I need some advice from the sales end here, can you help?...If you can't leave an e-mail to me, is there some way in which we can converse outside of this forum? Thanks Bruce

Subject: Re: Sales Help From: JK To: Bruce Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 08:55:29 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Bruce, My idea's on selling is somewhat out of 'The Norm'.Salespeople are under alot of pressure to sell and because of that pressure,some salespeople tend to say just about anything to get the sale.The reality is,there are alot of fine quality pianos available to our customers.There is also just as many opinions as there are pianos.You are not going to sell every person you talk to.Here's a perfect example.Without my customer ever seeing or hearing a Yamaha piano they say to me 'I don't want a Yamaha because I heard they have a brittle,bright Asian sound and they don't hold tune as well as other pianos and the wood they use isn't as good and they don't hold up in the long run.' REALLY!! from whom? 'The guy at XYZ piano's or from this book or from that technician or from this teacher or from that web page.' So now what do you do? Don't forget,you are selling one of the finest pianos being manufactured.Show your customer the features and benifits,show them all of the professional artists,teachers,schools,churches,and universities that have selected a Yamaha.Never'Knock'another piano line.They make good pianos as well.But yours is better.Your customer has come to you for help and it's your job to help them.Sell yourself,your company,and the reputation of your piano. Follow up,call your customers back.Be honest, don't lie even though you know your being lied to.Every sale to me is like a basketball game.I've played a great game and so has the other team.I've always got the ball towards the end of the game.I'm down by 1 point with 2 seconds left.I shoot,sometimes the ball goes in,sometimes it bounces off the rim,sometimes I get fouled with no call and sometimes I shoot an air ball.But never forget this, if you lose..... be a good sport. JK

Subject: Re: Sales Help From: Bruce To: JK Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 16:41:20 (EST) Email Address: Peano86381@aol.com Message: JK: Thanks for the tips, but I do subscribe to your sales techniques, and that's the way I was trained. But the help I'm inquiring about is more of a personal nature...I have acquired info which I would be most appreciative if there is a way for me to discuss it with you? I read on a previous post that you have been on the business 20 some years so, I'm sure your advice on this personal matter would mean a lot to me. If you could call me..I'd be willing to pay for the charges....regards Bruce

Subject: Help! New Baldwin Grand with player system? From: Gina To: All Date Posted: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 23:49:03 (EST) Email Address: gdstephen@aol.com Message: I would like to have a mid-price($20K total) piano with a player system so that I can also enjoy live piano music while I am still learning to play. So far,I've tended not to care for the 'bright' sound of the Asian pianos. I am considering purchasing a Baldwin M (5'2')in mahogany with a factory-installed Concertmaster system or a Baldwin R (5'8') in mahogany to be retrofitted with a fully loaded Pianodisc with playback,symphony, and record options. Both are offered by a dealer in NY for 21K. Is this reasonable? How do the two different player systems compare? I know that Baldwins have not been particular favorites on this forum, but I would appreciate all advice and suggestions.

Subject: Re: Help! New Baldwin Grand with player system? From: David Burton To: Gina Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 15:36:38 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Gina, I like the second option better, the R is a better piano and the Pianodisk a better more versitle system. Yes the price is good. Please, let me know by private e-mail who the outfit in New York is. Good luck to you on this.

Subject: Re: Help! New Baldwin Grand with player system? From: ryan To: David Burton Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 11:33:24 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: The R is definately a better model than the M. If you could possibly step up to the L, you would have an even better instrument. I think the sound of the L is more pleasing, but it's more money so you have to trade that off. Good luck!

Subject: Type From: Ron To: All Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 13:48:25 (EST) Email Address: rsh2@erols.com Message: Is the piano considered a percussion instrument? I have a bet with my friend that it is. I can not find info on this subject. Thank you, Ron

Subject: Re: Type From: Lyn To: Ron Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 07:00:18 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hi Ron, As far as I know, yes it is. At least that's what I was taught way back when through elmentary to high school. Hope this helps! Have a great day, Lyn

Subject: Re: Type From: Nathan To: Ron Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 14:25:43 (EST) Email Address: piano_search@hotmail.com Message: Is the piano considered a percussion instrument? I have a bet with my friend that it is. I can not find info on this subject. Thank you, Ron --- YES

Subject: Stranded on a desert island... From: John D. To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 03, 2000 at 10:15:40 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I know this is off the topic, but it's music so it is related: If you were stranded on a desert island and could have only 5 CD's and your stereo, what CD's would you pick? (And why, if you care to elaborate). John D.

Subject: Re: Stranded on a desert island... From: Bruce To: John D. Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 16:01:48 (EST) Email Address: Peano86381@aol.com Message: Only 5??...dang!....my tastes change all the time...but 1. would have to have Beethoven's 3rd Piano Concerto (Cleveland Orchestra Recording of course:-)) 2. Jimmy Webb's 'Ten Easy Pieces' 3. 'Painted From Memory' Burt Bacharach and Elvis Costello 4. 'Song For You' by the Carpenters (can never tire of Karen's voice) and a fight for 5th probably between a Billy Joel's Greatest Hit's collection, ABBA's Greatest Hit's, and any collection of Roy Byrd a.k.a. Professor Longhair, need to have some Leon Russell too! Dang...all Beatles Lp's are known so well, can pull them from memory so won't have to bring them....oh well 5....uhmm..nope I can't do it!!LOL...:-)

Subject: Re: Stranded on a desert island... From: David Burton To: John D. Date Posted: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 13:08:54 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Mike Oldfield, Ten Miles Out, Taurus II and any other 'rock without words' is something that I really like. This particular sample is almost 'Celtic rock' as compared with other rock genres that have roots in black, bayou or Caribbean sources. I don't know what CD's I'd take with me on a desert island, probably something loud though, like Mahler's Eighth. LOL

Subject: Re: Stranded on a desert island... From: JK To: John D. Date Posted: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 08:38:26 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: John D., Excellent question.Lets see.....'Question of Balance' by The Moody Blues(for that laid back feeling),aahhh....... 'What's Inside' by The New York Voices(Keep my mind workin') The Beatles 'Abbey Road'(for those wonderful memories), The Valdmir Horwitz CD(some classical to settle me down) and most important, to wake myself up every morning to the harsh reality....Tom Waits 'Mule Variations'. JK

Subject: Re: Stranded on a desert island... From: Lyn To: John D. Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 17:08:51 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hi John, I've been thinking about this one since I first saw it yesterday. Boy, it's really a tough one for me to narrow down because I love so many different things! Let's see, I would first have to start by 'borrowing' my daughter's Alfred Brendel CD (I don't remember the name of it). Another daughter has Rach III by Vladimir Horowitz and I've already 'borrowed' that one. Midnight Meditations by Roger Bennett, Rock's Great Hits from the 60's, at least I think that was the name. I had it a few years ago and it turned up missing, The Rocky Horror Picture Show Soundtrack. What can I say? I'm a child of the 60's! By the way, who has the CD player?? :-) Have a wonderful weekend! Lyn

Subject: Re: Stranded on a desert island... From: John D. To: John D. Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 12:54:49 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks to everyone who responded. A rather polarized answer: rock or classical. Interesting. Have a good weekend, John D.

Subject: Re: Stranded on a desert island... From: jodi To: John D. Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 11:45:04 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Well, my son (he's six) votes for Dark Side of the Moon (Pink Floyd), my daughter (8) would bring Come on Over (Shania Twain). I can't pick for my husband because he thinks I have terrible taste in rock music :) I would have to bring Turnstyles and The Stranger (Billy Joel), and Saint-Saens Symphany #3 'Organ' - because cranking the 4th track on that puppy is totally awesome-it shakes the whole house, and somebody would be bound to find us!

Subject: Re: Stranded on a desert island... From: Andrew To: John D. Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 09:31:50 (EST) Email Address: andrew.gan@prodigy.net Message: Only five CDs? Hmm Brahms Piano Concerto No.2 by Richter/Leisdorf (recorded in 1960) Richter's firy 'Appassionata' is also on it. Rachmaninov Piano Concerto No.3 by Cliburn. This is the most towering and mercurial reading of all the versions I have heard. (I have heard about 30 of them) Chopin Piano Concerto No.1 by Perahia/Mehta Chopin Etudes by Pollini or Zayas (Can't decide which one at this time) Grieg Piano Concerto in Am by Lupu. This overplayed concerto in Maestro Lupu's hand sounds so fresh and sparkling! What? I already ran out of my 5? Andrew

Subject: Re: Stranded on a desert island... From: Mat D. To: Andrew Date Posted: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 17:46:55 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: Andrew, After listening to Pollini's Etudes last night, i think I might have to go along with you on your choice there. Lortie is highly polished (as is Pollini) but is a bit more 'polite' whereas Pollini digs in a bit more like Richter always did --- more guts. I will change my Etudes CD choice to Pollini. thanks for the reminder. Mat D.

Subject: Re: Stranded on a desert island... From: Mat D. To: Andrew Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 09:45:19 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: Andrew, Have you heard the Louis Lortie Chopin Etudes? they are wonderful; both the performance (he was in his mid 20's at the time) and the recording quality are great. BTW, the Leif Ove Andsnes Rach III is wonderful also--worth checking if you haven't already. Mat D.

Subject: Re: Stranded on a desert island... From: Andrew To: Mat D. Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 10:16:33 (EST) Email Address: andrew.gan@prodigy.net Message: Mat, I forgot to mention Bernd Glemser's Rach Piano Concerti traversal on Naxos. Have you heard them yet? If not, check them out. If yes, what do you think of them? Sorry for diverting from the topic. Andrew

Subject: Re: Stranded on a desert island... From: Andrew To: Mat D. Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 10:10:47 (EST) Email Address: andrew.gan@prodigy.net Message: Mat, Thanks for reminding! How could I forget Lortie's Chopin Etudes. I do have this CD. I like it VERY much. His reading is refined and delicate. Thanks for the tip of Andsnes Rach 3. I have not heard but read about it. It seems his performance got respected review. I have only two of his CDs. From what I heard so far, he definitely is a formidable pianist of the younger generation. As to the Chopin Etudes, Ashkenazy's early traversal is, in my ears, the landmark set for students to get introduced into this wonderful music. Recently music lovers have raved about Cziffra's recording of these etudes on GPTTC. I bought it and thought that was my WORST CD purchase in 1999. Andrew

Subject: Re: Stranded on a desert island... From: jodi To: Andrew Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 11:49:57 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I wish I would've known about this forum when I ordered a CD of Chopin Etudes from Amazon.com - I just had to close my eyes and pick...

Subject: Re: Stranded on a desert island... From: Andrew To: jodi Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 12:11:15 (EST) Email Address: andrew.gan@prodigy.net Message: Jodi, May I ask which version did you get?

Subject: Re: Stranded on a desert island... From: jodi To: Andrew Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 12:40:24 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Someone named Garrick Ohlsson. Arabesque Recordings.

Subject: Re: Stranded on a desert island... From: Mat D. To: jodi Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 01:36:36 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: Jodi, I haven't heard Ohlsson's Chopin Etudes, but he is a fine pianist & I'm sure the CD will be vert satisfying --- you can purchase the Pollini later when you have a frame of reference--it's always fun to hear several interpretations of any of the great literature. Mat D.

Subject: Re: Stranded on a desert island... From: Bonnie To: John D. Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 07:39:13 (EST) Email Address: bonnie_stewart@qm.eaw.com Message: I know this is off the topic, but it's music so it is related: If you were stranded on a desert island and could have only 5 CD's and your stereo, what CD's would you pick? (And why, if you care to elaborate). John D. --- I want to answer this question just because I can. My 5 CDs would be Tom Petty and The Heartbreakers, Echo, Wildflowers and Southern Accents. TPatHBs have been with me through EVERYTHING! Greatful Dead, American Beauty, Eagles, Hell Freezes Over. What can I say, I just like those a lot. Are we stranded alone? If not, I figure that the other people stranded with me might share their stuff too.

Subject: Re: Stranded on a desert island... From: Joy To: Bonnie Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 13:32:50 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: OK what the hey I'll play. I'm assuming I can share everyone else's 5 CDs. I'm a variety freak, so I'd bring: Brazilian Classics, volume 2, selected by David Byrne (if I could sing, I'd want to sound like Clara Nunes, what a contralto she has!); Big Night soundtrack, 32 Short Pieces About Glenn Gould soundtrack ( a little bit of all things wonderful), Kid Creole & the Coconuts/'Annie I'm Not Your Daddy', and Bryan Ferry/Best of Roxy Music. My son would bring his multiple CD collections (3 CD sets count as 1 selection, right?) of Glenn Gould (all Bach, maybe one Beethoven set) and Trevor Pinnock. Joy PS. Today is a red letter day: Our tech is coming to tune our M&H. The mysterious buzz behind the fallboard has disappeared, just 2 days before his visit -- except for when you play the 3rd c# -- it's hiding there now. ;)

Subject: Re: Stranded on a desert island... From: Mat D. To: Joy Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 01:39:43 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: Joy, I forgot about the '32 Short Films About Glenn Gould' soundtrack. It is an excellent video (a bit artsy & off the wall but enjoyable). The soundtrack is kind of an encapsulation of what Glenn Gould was all about. Mat D.

Subject: Re: Stranded on a desert island... From: David Burton To: Joy Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 16:11:29 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Joy says, 'Today is a red letter day: Our tech is coming to tune our M&H. The mysterious buzz behind the fallboard has disappeared, just 2 days before his visit -- except for when you play the 3rd c# -- it's hiding there now.' I bet something has fallen inside like a pencil or a paper clip. Make sure he checks. It may have been there from the last owner. PS: I love Thirty Short Films About Glenn Gould. What an eccentric! Do you know that bit in there about his trading oil stocks was just the tip of the iceberg. Gould was apparently an investment whiz of sorts. His stockbroker did suggest to him that he could make more money just playing the market and playing the piano less, can you believe it?

Subject: Re: Stranded on a desert island... From: Joy To: David Burton Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 17:41:44 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: David says 'I bet something has fallen inside like a pencil or a paper clip. Make sure he checks. It may have been there from the last owner.' He's not leaving until he uncovers the source of that buzz. Interestingly enough, when I told my tech on the phone about it, he said it's not unusual for sounds to appear/disappear/reappear, particularly this time of year. You see, we have the notorious Santa Ana winds. It'll be cold (OK, 35-40 degress F, wussy by other people's standards, but I've adjusted, so it's cold now!) one day, then blazingly hot and numbingly DRY and windy for 3 to 4 solid days. I hate the Santa Anas. Anyways, my piano tech tells me pianos fluctuate in their condition with these changes, so he wasn't surprised to hear how the buzz shifted because coincided with the influx of Santa Ana. Well, this is fine and dandy, but he can't leave until he locates that buzz. I will report the outcome shortly. On '32 Short Films About GG' It's a great movie! He is a fascinating study. I think he directed most of his stock earnings to help save the animals . We have that movie on tape, and it's almost worn out! My son has every single CD collection they culled the'32 Short Pieces' from, except for the ones with Schoënberg and Prokofiev. He loves the way Gould plays that Prokofiev selection, as I do! Won't be long before he has those too, I reckon, since he's been intently listening to Prokofiev piano performances (not Gould's) on his Walkman CD player lately. Joy

Subject: Re: Stranded on a desert island... From: Mat D. To: Joy Date Posted: Mon, Feb 07, 2000 at 01:43:47 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: Joy, Gould left his money to the Humane Society & Salvation Army. He was a very gentle & moral man --- an eccenctric, yes, but a wonderful one. Mat D.

Subject: Re: Stranded on a desert island... From: Mat D. To: John D. Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 03, 2000 at 22:04:41 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: John, Off the top of my head I'd say: -Martha Argerich Chopin 'Preludes' -Wilhelm Kempf 32 Beethoven Sonatas (I'm cheating a little here--it's a set) -Anything by Sviatoslov Richter (middle years) -Vladimir Horowitz Mozart Concert #23/Sonata Bb (forgot #) -Glenn Gould Bach Goldberg Variation (early recording) No particular order! Mat D.

Subject: Beckwith Chicago #48047 From: GDF To: All Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 22:16:09 (EST) Email Address: comeback@softcom.net Message: A friend of mine gave me a Beckwith Chicago piano. I know absolutly nothing about this piano and would really appreciate any information anyone may have. There is a number #48047 on it but nothing else. How old is this piano and where can I find more information?

Subject: Wegner piano From: Deb Kopas To: All Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 18:06:13 (EST) Email Address: Kopas@rconnect.com Message: I have a Wegner upright that I'm looking for some information on. The serial number is 31499 which I believe puts it as manufactured sometime in the 1920s. About 3 years ago we had the outside completely refinished, so it is in great condition. When the refinishing was done we were also told that the interior is also in good condition. If anyone has any information on the history and/or value of this type of piano, I'd love to know. Thanks

Subject: ANTIQUE PIANO????? From: JOEY SPINELLI To: All Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 09:05:15 (EST) Email Address: KINGC712@AOL.COM Message: HELLO IM NEW TO THIS SIGHT I HOPE SOMEONE CAN HELP ME I WAS GIVEN WHAT I BELIEVE TO BE AN ANTIQUE PIANO IVE CHECKED JUST ABOUT EVERY WEBSITE I COULD FIND TO NO AVAIL I WOULD JUST LIKE MY PIANOS HISTORY AND WORTH BUT ITS NOT FOR SALE IM IN LOVE WITH IT TOO MUCH AND AM TAKING LESSONS ITS TOUGH BUT I ENJOY IT ANYWAY THE NAME ON THE HARP SAYS KRAKAUER BROS.NEW YORK AND THE NAME ON THE KEYLID SAYS WELTE-MIGNON ORIGINAL AND THERE IS A REGISTRY/SERIAL NUMBER STAMPED ON THE HARP ITS 35051 BY THE WAY IT WAS AN ELECTRIC PIANOLA BUT SOMEONE TOOK OUT THE MECHANISM I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE ANY INFORMATION YOU PROVIDE AND LOOK FORWARD TO MUCH CORRESPONDENCE IN REGARD TO THIS SUBJECT IN THE AS IM ACTUALLY IN LOVE WITH THIS INSTRUMENT AND THE SOUND IT PRODUCES. I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. SINCERELY JOEY SPINELLI

Subject: Re: ANTIQUE PIANO????? From: JOEY SPINELLI To: JOEY SPINELLI Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 09:10:04 (EST) Email Address: KINGC712@AOL.COM Message: HELLO IM NEW TO THIS SIGHT I HOPE SOMEONE CAN HELP ME I WAS GIVEN WHAT I BELIEVE TO BE AN ANTIQUE PIANO IVE CHECKED JUST ABOUT EVERY WEBSITE I COULD FIND TO NO AVAIL I WOULD JUST LIKE MY PIANOS HISTORY AND WORTH BUT ITS NOT FOR SALE IM IN LOVE WITH IT TOO MUCH AND AM TAKING LESSONS ITS TOUGH BUT I ENJOY IT ANYWAY THE NAME ON THE HARP SAYS KRAKAUER BROS.NEW YORK AND THE NAME ON THE KEYLID SAYS WELTE-MIGNON ORIGINAL AND THERE IS A REGISTRY/SERIAL NUMBER STAMPED ON THE HARP ITS 35051 BY THE WAY IT WAS AN ELECTRIC PIANOLA BUT SOMEONE TOOK OUT THE MECHANISM I WOULD GREATLY APPRECIATE ANY INFORMATION YOU PROVIDE AND LOOK FORWARD TO MUCH CORRESPONDENCE IN REGARD TO THIS SUBJECT IN THE AS IM ACTUALLY IN LOVE WITH THIS INSTRUMENT AND THE SOUND IT PRODUCES. I THANK YOU FOR YOUR TIME. SINCERELY JOEY SPINELLI ---

Subject: Re: ANTIQUE PIANO????? From: David Burton To: JOEY SPINELLI Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 15:44:24 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Joey, Krackauer Bros. 35051 puts it in 1911. Yes they made better than average sounding pianos, and a lot of player pianos too. You have one of these, at least it was a player. You're probably lucky it isn't one now. Old player mechanisms can get into lots of trouble. Enjoy it. If you had a Krackauer grand say 5'6' or larger in good condition from that era, it would be a ripe candidate for a rebuild. But I wouldn't put too much money into an upright, just enough to maintain it. Best of luck.

Subject: black and ivory keys resurfacing From: B.Davis To: All Date Posted: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 15:22:55 (EST) Email Address: www.davismurlee@aol.com Message: Just purchased a great old piano 70 years young Have removed all old varnish and need to know what to do with the black and ivory keys to restore. The white keys are ok but the black needs to be sanded and I think use black laquor. your advice would be appreciated. thanks new member bob

Subject: Re: black and ivory keys resurfacing From: Piano World To: B.Davis Date Posted: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 21:45:06 (EST) Email Address: webmaster@pianoworld.com Message: Hi Bob, I'm not trying to sell you anything, but there are 'paints' made especially for ebony keys. We carry some ad do other piano suppliers. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't use just any black paint. Frank Baxter Webmaster Piano World PianoSupplies.com

Subject: Re: black and ivory keys resurfacing From: Bob Davis To: Piano World Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 11:55:17 (EST) Email Address: www.davismurlee@aol,com Message: Hi Bob, I'm not trying to sell you anything, but there are 'paints' made especially for ebony keys. We carry some ad do other piano suppliers. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't use just any black paint. Frank Baxter Webmaster Piano World PianoSupplies.com ---

Subject: Re: black and ivory keys resurfacing From: Bob To: Bob Davis Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 12:14:42 (EST) Email Address: www.davismurlee@aol.com Message: Hi Bob, I'm not trying to sell you anything, but there are 'paints' made especially for ebony keys. We carry some ad do other piano suppliers. I guess what I'm trying to say is don't use just any black paint. Frank Baxter Webmaster Piano World PianoSupplies.com --- --- Hi Frank Thank you for the response. I was looking for the paint in your store but could not find. I will surely take your advise. Please advise how to order. Thanks again Bob

Subject: Piano choice vs music preferences: From: John D. To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 17:18:49 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Recently I've noticed a lot of people talking about various classical pieces they are learning. Don't get me wrong, I really like classical music and would love to listen to any of you play. I, however, do not like to play classical. I find it too rigid, not allowing for me to arrange and improvise as I 'hear' the song. I've spent major bucks on a grand to play Elton John, Van Morrison, Edwin McCain, Extreme, Meatloaf, Fleetwood Mac, Tina Turner, Alan Jackson, Brooks&Dunn, etc... Plus my own rock compositions. Once, I mastered Moonlight Sonata (big deal, right?) So my question is, is there anyone else out there who has a really nice piano, but never plays classical on it? I'm just curious. Thanks, John D.

Subject: Re: Piano choice vs music preferences: From: Lyn To: John D. Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 08:02:27 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hi John, There's nothing wrong in playing the music you enjoy. I think most of us probably do. Personally, I love classical music now but hated learning it as a child. However, I see how it gave me the foundation needed to do my own arranging and improvisation. I've mostly arranged church music and I have accompanied many a Southern Gospel quartet, but I enjoy playing many other styles of music; rock, pop, country, ragtime, blues, etc. I once accompanied a 60's group in a talent competition with such songs like, The Four Seasons hits, Save it For Me, Ragdoll, Walk Like a Man, and who could forget, Soldier Boy, Blue Moon, Remember Then, Rock in Roll is Here to Stay etc. It's wonderful to be able to master the difficult classical pieces, but I think we all need to be open to other music styles. Am I the only one who's old enough to remember these oldies????? YIKES! Lyn

Subject: Re: Piano choice vs music preferences: From: Ray To: Lyn Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 08:38:59 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Lyn, Just wanted you to know that I remember well 'oldies' like the ones you mentioned. When I was in high school in the 60's, I accompanied soloists and groups in talent shows. Can't tell you how many of them chose songs like Baby I'm Yours, Since I Don't Have You, My Prayer, etc. Lots of great memories associated with those times and that music! Gosh, what a fossil I sound like!!!

Subject: Feeling a Bit Ancient, Too! From: Lyn To: Lyn to Ray Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 16:37:57 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hi Ray, I know EXACTLY how you feel! I felt like a fossil just reading what I wrote!! I graduated in '73 and I'm very familiar with the mid-late 60's music. I had older brothers so the early 60's music is still pretty fresh in my mind, too. You're right, there are some great memories there. Other people/groups I've accompanied have done songs like, One Fine Day, My Boyfriend's Back, Leader of the Laundramat, House of the Rising Sun, Do You Love Me, and oh yes, do you remember the Rocky Horror Picture Show?? You guessed it, I've played those, too. Wow, now I really feel ANCIENT!!!! Better find the Gerital and the Polygrip!!! Have a great afternoon! Lyn

Subject: Re: Feeling a Bit Ancient, Too! From: John D. To: Lyn Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 03, 2000 at 10:09:02 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Glad to see so many people are into 'pop' music as well as classical! I get the impression a lot of the people on this forum are in their 40's - that's NOT ancient!!! I just turned the big 4-0. Just a quick comment on the 'older' music - My Prayer is a fantastic song. Perhaps it's the lead singer on The Platters who makes it. I'm going to start another thread with a 'favorite song' topic. John D.

Subject: Re: Feeling a Bit Ancient, Too! From: Lyn To: John D. Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 17:30:14 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hi John, So, you just turned the big 4-0? Happy Birthday! I just had that one myself, 4 years ago. You're right, it's not ancient, but sometimes I sure feel like it is. I have the radio in my car tuned to a classic rock station. When they play one of my old favorites, I blast the radio and dance in the seat, just like when I was 16! Enjoy your weekend! Lyn

Subject: Re: Feeling a Bit Ancient, Too! From: John D. To: Lyn Date Posted: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 12:45:23 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: One thing all us 40 year old 'kids' have that the real kids of today don't have is the memory of the music from the 70's and early 80's. THAT was music. Be it rock, pop, or dare I say it, the hated D word - DISCO. The music had melodies, rhythm and even some chords. Ok, I must admit that I do get a kick out of Brittany Spears and The Back Street Boys - and Cher can do no wrong as far as I'm concerned. I have a feeling I'm going to be kicked off this forum after this post! Later, John D.

Subject: Re: Feeling a Bit Ancient, Too! From: jodi To: Lyn Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 20:22:56 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Me too (4 - 0 last year) - But I still feel like I'm 25. I still look like those pictures. Really. Even though everyone else doesn't seem to think so. ;) I'm getting the hang of this smiley face. No nose.

Subject: Re: Feeling a Bit Ancient, Too! From: Sue To: jodi Date Posted: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 06:39:24 (EST) Email Address: loudon@key-net.net Message: We're just a bunch of 40 year old 'kids'. I have you beat by 6 years and still manage to kick butt single tracking on my mt bike. If someone asked me if I had to get rid of my bike or my piano which would it be...Ouch! The red Beast would have to go...besides my love of the piano, the bike would be a little bit easier to carry out the door.

Subject: Re: Feeling a Bit Ancient, Too! From: Marco To: Sue Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 01:39:26 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: My wife and I are 35 years young and expecting our first child. We both feel young and now more than ever we are going to get that piano we've been talking about so much. thanks to all on the advice for an upright and yes, I bought Larry Fine's book......Thanks again

Subject: Grandma, what's a record? From: Lyn To: All Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 00:33:26 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Sue's absolutely right about us 40 year old 'kids'. I think I probably have more fun now than I did in my 20's. I had three preschool daughters and now that they're grown, it's great fun to watch them have all the enjoyment with their young kids as I had with them at that age! ;-) My studio is full of new-fangled gadgets, but the one 'antiquated' piece is a turntable with LP's, 45's and even some 78's. My 5 year old grandson saw it work for the first time and was fascinated. Unfortunately, it left me with having to explain the concept of 'records' and how that's what we played when 'grandma' was a little girl! OUCH!!!! It's amazing that most little ones that age have only seen CD's and maybe a few cassette tapes. Have a great weekend everyone, young or old! Lyn

Subject: Re: ... what's a record?/Austin Powers From: Joy To: Lyn Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 01:23:01 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Which reminds me of the one scene that made me laugh out loud when my son dragged me to see 'Austin Powers' (the first one). Austin's been in deep-freeze since the 60s ("Oh, beHAVE, bay-bee"), he's in the present now and encounters his first CD. Tries to play it on a turntable. . . . puts the needle on and OW!!! what a noise!!!!. Still makes me smile when I think about it. :) Joy

Subject: Re: Feeling REALLY Young!! From: David Burton To: Sue Date Posted: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 12:51:31 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Well, I for one have always felt like a kid out of time, still do, even though I loathe that phrase, 'I'm (fill in the number) years YOUNG.' Come on! One advantage of advancing age is that fewer people dare to challenge you on petty stuff anymore. What a relief! But seriously, what if the music you are REALLY into was all written by long dead guys that were alive a hundred years ago or more? Then, you can feel REALLY young! I never really attached much significance to popular music as I was growing up, although I did see the worth of the mature Beatles stuff, Sargent Pepper's is probably my favorite rock album, although Rubber Soul, Revolver, The White Album, Abbey Road are each great too. Honorable mention to Pink Floyd, whom I saw many times. Someone mentioned The Dark Side of the Moon which is not 'dated' yet as a lot of stuff from that period is beginning to seem. The fact is nobody can really do the Beatles like the Beatles. Nobody can really do Elvis like Elvis, oh they try but it's pathetic. But people can and do Chopin like or (dare I say it) better than Chopin. That's a point in classical's favor.

Subject: Re: Piano choice vs music preferences: From: Mat D. To: John D. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 22:45:06 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: John, Nice to talk to you! There's nothing wrong with Elton John etc. I studied Classical music but ended up in a R&R band when I was in my 20's traveling accross the country for Capital records; I played lots of 'non-classical' music in my time. Now I'm in my 40's and have a nice piano and am back to my roots w/classical music, but my job (music arr. & producing) keeps my on my toes w/all other types of music as well --- -either way, you need a good instrument to make beautiful music, whatever the genre. Best regards, Mat D.

Subject: Re: Piano choice vs music preferences: From: David Burton To: John D. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 22:34:42 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: John D asks, 'So my question is, is there anyone else out there who has a really nice piano, but never plays classical on it? I'm just curious.' OK, true confessions. Yeah, sometimes I play boogie woogie, blues, JAZZ, show tunes, some rock n' roll if I have others to play with, after all I am originally from Northern California and did play in a few bands. Does any of that count? And you know what John? It all sounds better on a better piano.

Subject: Re: Piano choice vs music preferences: From: jodi To: John D. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 18:18:40 (EST) Email Address: jodi@radon.chem.uidaho.eud Message: Well, I don't have my nice piano yet, and I do play a lot of classical music, but I also love Billy Joel, ragtime, and have a nice rendition to part of Layla (I'm not sure thats how you spell it ) figured out that sounds just AWESOME on a piano with a great base. I have the hardest time finding music that actually SOUNDS like the piano playing in the popular songs I like - its either way too easy - or ridiculously fluffed up. I also have a favorite song - a lullaby- by James Taylor called 'Close your eyes' that I can only find the guitar music for. (and you don't by any chance have the music for 'Tonight' from Blue Moves by Elton John, do you? Its almost impossible to even find that album any more.) Anyway - this isn't exactly the answer you were looking for but I'm sure others will have something to share.

Subject: Re: Piano choice vs music preferences: From: John D. To: jodi Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 18:49:42 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Ah yes, I forgot Billy Joel (a hanging offense as he's the original piano man). I was never into James Taylor, but I do know the song Tonight by John/Taupin - about Taupin's breakup with one of his wifes. Unfortunately, I don't have the music for that. My favorite Elton songs to play are Honky Cat and Funeral for a Friend. Cork, thanks for your response. I like Gershwin too (but more to listen to). My parent's were not musical and he's a bit before my time - but a fantastic composer. Well both George and Ira were fantastic. John D.

Subject: oops - that's bass, not base this thing needs a spellcheck! From: jodi To: jodi Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 18:20:19 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: :-)

Subject: Re: oops - that's bass, not base this thing needs a spellcheck! From: Joy To: jodi Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 22:23:06 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Oh, you have to leave out the nose-dash. :)

Subject: Re: oops - that's bass, not base this thing needs a spellcheck! From: jodi To: Joy Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 22:32:38 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: :) ..... YES!

Subject: Re: Piano choice vs music preferences: From: Cork To: John D. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 17:59:17 (EST) Email Address: cvdh@my-Deja.com Message: John, I do play a lot of classical, so I don't qualify, but my other love is jazz. Gershwin, Porter, all the stuff from the Swing era is the music my parents played while I grew up. I never 'rebelled' and thus never wanted to get into rock, but I'd sure like to play some of the Keith Emerson solos I've heard!!! (Yeah, in my dreams). Regards, Cork

Subject: Re: Piano choice vs music preferences: From: jodi To: Cork Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 18:22:53 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I've seen the music for a Keith Emerson Concerto (I think thats what it was) - I love that piece - but it looked very difficult. I also love Gershwin - but so far have only managed the Preludes!

Subject: Re: Emerson & Gershwin From: Cork To: jodi Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 21:57:26 (EST) Email Address: cvdh@my-Deja.com Message: Emerson's Piano Concerto is a fascinating blend of classical, jazz, and rock styles. Sort of what the finale to 'Mr. Holland's Opus' SHOULD have been, rather than the mess it was. Emerson has monstrously good technique, and his stuff is always difficult to play. If you can play all three Gershwin Preludes, you should try to get a copy of some of Gershwin's own variations on some of his popular songs. My edition is very old, but I know I've seen a recent publication of some of them. These are transcriptions of variations Gershwin developed himself, and are structured with the original intro, the song itself with words and a relatively simply piano arrangement, followed by a more complex piano solo. Great fun. The edition I have has great songs like 'The Man I Love', 'Fascinating Rhythm', 'My One and Only', 'Strike up the Band', etc. Regards, Cork

Subject: E.L.P. lives!! & more... From: Mat D. To: Cork Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 23:02:42 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: Hi Cork and everyone out there, Speaking of monstrous technique & Gershwin music, I think Earl Wild is fabulous; his Gershwin transcriptions are wonderful, as is his classical repertoire (Liszt & Rachmaninov are superb). BTW, I used to go see Emerson Lake & Palmer when they were touring (saw them twice)--Keith Emerson has a lot to do with the prominence of keyboards in pop music today, he was great. My brother (a drummer) and I used to play a duo (B3 organ w/bass pedals-[split off to a Ampeg SVT amp], elec piano and moog synthesizer) and we used to perform a couple of the ELP songs--Knife's Edge, Lucky Man & Hoedown (Aaron Copland). Ah yes, the good old days --- -don't get me started here! Mat D.

Subject: Re: E.L.P. lives!! & more... From: Cork To: Mat D. Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 23:36:47 (EST) Email Address: cvdh@my-Deja.com Message: Wow, I'd forgotten the Earl Wild Gershwin transcriptions! Thanks for the reminder. I've got to dig up that LP. Fantastic chops, that guy. Still, I'd have to say that Art Tatum remains my favorite virtuoso. Emerson's technique drew me into rock for a short time; I could not believe anyone that good was playing for a rock band. I've been an ELP fan ever since. Enjoyed Wakeman, too, but his music never engaged me like Emerson's. I think some of my old issues of Keyboard Magazine have some transcriptions by Emerson . . . cv

Subject: Re: E.L.P. lives!! & more... From: Alex To: Cork Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 03, 2000 at 10:05:04 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: This is kind of fascinating that all of us classically trained pianists would veer towards Emerson. I, personnally, was always on the Emerson side of the Emerson vs. Wakefield debates. Saw ELP at least 5 times in concert. Learned to play my electric piano from the opposite side to be like Kieth in my high school band. Anyway, I have an old book of Emerson transcriptions released by Manticore Music in 1977. It includes: Benny the Bouncer, The Sheriff, Take A Pebble, Trilogy and several others. I think what these transcriptions show is that Kieth really understood the piano with a sort of Liszt mentality. The notes fall under the hand nicely and sound much more difficult than it actually is to play. Nice stuff. Anyone know what he's up to now?

Subject: Re: E.L.P. lives!! & more... From: Mat D. To: Cork Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 22:40:46 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: Cork, I'll have to dig up those old Keyboard Mags to find the transcriptions. The pieces that I used to perform with my brother (duo) I painstakingly figured out after hundreds of passes on the LP. I think if I had a couple days, i could still get through 'Knifes Edge' & Hoedown' --they were done on B3 organ by Emerson (very effective use of the percussion on his B3--it was definately a beefed up percussion tab). BTW, I think Art Tatum was one of the all-time 'giants of piano' and I don't think you'd get any arguments from the 'Classical' community! Regards, Mat D.

Subject: Re: E.L.P. lives!! & more... From: Piano World To: Mat D. Date Posted: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 08:11:14 (EST) Email Address: webmaster@pianoworld.com Message: OK Folks, I usually let this forum take care of itself and just keep an eye on things. But you are talking about one of my favorite people now. I think I have every ELP album and CD ever made. I first saw Emerson when he came over with his band, "The Nice" (how many of you remember them?). I played in Rock bands in the late sixties/early seventies and remember trying to cover ELP and Yes tunes. I'm a decent keyboard player, but Emerson I'm not. I still listen to his music while I'm working at my computer building Piano World. And to the thread about feeling older, I still think I'm in my 20s until I look in a mirror (who is that guy with the grey hair?) Enjoyed the thread, thanks everyone. Frank Baxter Webmaster Piano World www.pianoworld.com PianoSupplies.com www.pianosupplies.com

Subject: Re: E.L.P. lives!! & more... From: Cork To: Piano World Date Posted: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 09:20:05 (EST) Email Address: cvdh@my-Deja.com Message: Frank, What a treat to have you join us! I knew eventually we'd get you involved again! Another Keith Emerson fan; just goes to show the high intelligence of the Forum's contributors extends to the Webmaster. I hope you'll honor us with more messages in the future! Regards, Cork

Subject: Re: Art Tatum From: David Burton To: Mat D. Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 22:52:02 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Mat D. says, 'BTW, I think Art Tatum was one of the all-time 'giants of piano' and I don't think you'd get any arguments from the 'Classical' community!' Nope, you wouldn't. He was blind too. He also had huge mits (notice the size of his walking bass chords) and a tonal memory that was faultless (notice how he breaks in and out of a form and manages to find his way back before he's caught). Art Tatum influenced virtually every jazz pianist who has come after him. I don't know if he had any classical training whatsoever, I doubt it. But he was a phenomenal pianist none the less. If his work has been released on CD's all cleaned up etc. I'd sure like to replace my long worn out LP's that were transcribed from 78s.

Subject: Re: Art Tatum From: mAT d. To: David Burton Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 23:28:11 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@AOL.COM Message: David, another pianist comes to mind and this time a young guy--Marcus Miller who is also blind and has fabulous technique and an incredible sense of time. Speaking of Gershwin, Miller has a CD or two devoted to the music of gershwin. I'm sure you are aware of him, but I thought I might share that with some others who have not discovered him. Mat D.

Subject: Re: Art Tatum From: Joy To: mAT d. Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 03, 2000 at 00:48:44 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Mat, Forgive me if I'm wrong, but do you mean Marcus Roberts? We have his 'Portraits in Blue' Gershwin CD. Amazing improvisions. He did some refreshing noodling with Joplin melodies on another CD. We saw him being interviewed after a marvelous jazz performance on a PBS pledge drive a few months ago. He said whenever he feels his playing is stiff, he plays Bach to loosen up. Pretty neat! Joy

Subject: Re: Art Tatum From: Mat D. To: Joy Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 03, 2000 at 22:10:43 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: Joy, Thanks for that because I had a major brain freeze and couldn't think of his name --- I just made it up hoping you guys would know what I meant. He is great, isn't he! Mat D.

Subject: playing Bach as warm up for jazz From: Joy To: Mat D. Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 03, 2000 at 22:31:10 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Sure is. His Bach comment made quite the impression on my kid.

Subject: Re: Emerson & Gershwin From: jodi To: Cork Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 22:31:47 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks, Cork - I will look that up - I love Fascinating Rhythm.

Subject: Re: Emerson & Wakeman From: David Burton To: jodi Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 22:50:02 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Keith Emerson and Rick Wakeman were at one time vying with one another for 'greatest pop pianist in the world'. I managed to hear both of them in the early seventies. Rick was far more interested in pure technique as far as I could ever tell, very clever but not that deep. It's ok, some people, like my sister, like their music that way, thrilling technique but no emotional movement. Once after I played a medly of romantic stuff for her she said, 'you know I don't like music that messes with my emotions that way.' But Keith Emerson did something once at a concert in San Francisco that I will never forget. I wonder if anyone else saw this. He strapped himself behind a lidless Baldwin concert grand piano. Then the piano rose off the stage and slowly began to turn end over end. It was spinning pretty rapidly and Keith just kept playing. I wondered at the time if this was a stunt or real musicianship? I think the whole thing lasted almost ten minutes. I forgot the music but I'll never forget the stunt.

Subject: Wakeman thoughts... From: Mat D. To: David Burton Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 23:09:04 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: David, Wow, Rick Wakeman, I haven't heard his name mentioned for a while. I also saw him live and he was technically excellent though he wasn't the showman the Emerson was; he was also competing with three other excellent players on that stage, Chris Squire (bass), Steve Howe (guitar)& drummer Bill Bruford. Thanks for the memory! Mat D.

Subject: David's web site From: Carolyn To: All Date Posted: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 23:57:10 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Would someone please reply with the address for David's site? I went there once sometime a go, but failed to bookmark it and now cannot return....thank you!

Subject: Re: David's web site From: Cork To: Carolyn Date Posted: Sun, Feb 06, 2000 at 00:27:36 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: http://www.geocities.com/Vienna/Studio/5505/

Subject: Recognise this piano? From: Sue To: All Date Posted: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 22:54:27 (EST) Email Address: gandalf@fl.net.au Message: Can anyone tell me anything about my piano, please? It's a Richard Lipp and Sohnn, Stuttgart.

Subject: Note to Frank Baxter: From: John D. To: All Date Posted: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 12:50:41 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Frank, Noticed your post about ELP but wanted to add that ALL of us really enjoy this forum. Thanks for all your hard work keeping it going. John D.

Subject: Re: Note to Frank Baxter: From: Piano World To: John D. Date Posted: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 21:38:48 (EST) Email Address: webmaster@pianoworld.com Message: Thank you John. I think we have a great group of people here and I really appreciate all the help everyone has been providing to each other and to our many visitors. I wish I had more time to spend in the forum. Hopefully I will be able to free up some time soon. I have been re-designing Piano World from the ground up. Spending 12 to 14 hours a day coding pages. I expect to launch the 'new' site next week. I hope you like it. Once it is up and running, I want to spend more time adding new features, talking with our 'regulars' and expanding our categories. I'm having so much fun, it almost shouldn't be legal ;-) Yours, Frank Baxter Webmaster Piano World PianoSupplies.com PianoHelp (and coming soon, BaxterVision (web site building and promoting) )

Subject: something's different... From: jodi To: All Date Posted: Sat, Feb 05, 2000 at 11:10:31 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Ack - who changed the font size?! Just kidding - I thought for a minute I was really losing it and needed bifocals...

Subject: Uebel Pianos From: Helene Johnson To: All Date Posted: Fri, Jan 28, 2000 at 00:30:10 (EST) Email Address: my$lenes@airswitch.net Message: Can anyone help me? My great-great grandfather was Christian Uebel. He was born in Heilbronn, Germany. His family made theUebel Pianos. I would like to know the history of the Uebel Pianos. When did thay start making them? Are they still being made today? Is there a book I can find on it? Any and all help would greatly be appreciated. I have a copy of a letter signed by Franz Liszt endorcing the Uebel Pianos . Thanks!!

Subject: Re: Uebel Pianos From: David Burton To: Helene Johnson Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 22:56:05 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: OK Helene, This turned out to be a more interesting search than most. If it has anything to do with the makes of any piano worth knowing about, the Pierce Piano Atlas has it. The name of the piano maker was Uebel & Lechleitner, that's YOO-bell unt LEHK-light-ner. Maybe that's why they didn't do as well as other makers, hard to pronounce. Harder to remember. Anyway, this firm started in 1872 in Heilbronn, Ge5rmany and just closed down in 1987 and the redoubtable atlas provided complete serial numbers. The last year they were in operation they made on 28 instruments, the year before that 144 instruments, the year before that 82 instruments. My guess is that they were always a very small outfit. They probably made upright pianos only, maybe a few grands but I kind of doubt it. Their quality was probably better the average made in America during the same periods, but who knows. It says that they have a retail operation in Heilbronn at Kaiserstrasse 10, 74072 phone 011-49-07131-68324. If there are any relatives of yours at this firm, you might want to contact them.

Subject: Waters From: Robert To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 03, 2000 at 19:11:56 (EST) Email Address: rvorreti@optonline.net Message: Has anybody ever heard of a 'Waters' brand piano, and if so, is it a good instrument?

Subject: Re: Waters From: David Burton To: Robert Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 17:24:34 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: There were FOUR makers named Waters according to the redoubtable Pierce Piano Atlas. The only one of any note was Horace Waters which made player pianos in the heart of Harlem, New York until around 1950. How good are they or were they? Not notorious for anything as far as I know.

Subject: piano history From: kelly To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 03, 2000 at 23:19:15 (EST) Email Address: kmbrimmer@friend.ly.net Message: We have recently aquired a 'free' piano. We believe the manufacturer is G. Fred Kranz from Baltimore, but are unable to find any information on the hisory or age of the piano. Does anyone have any info?

Subject: Re: piano history From: David Burton To: kelly Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 17:04:37 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Kranz and Krantz are both listed in the Pierce Piano Atlas, no serial numbers are listed. It's probably one of the literally thousands of off the road brands that used to exist. You're likely to find little else on it.

Subject: buying a piano From: Peter To: All Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 01:38:03 (EST) Email Address: echoes_ss@yahoo.com Message: My daughter is 5 years old. She want me to buy a piano for her. I shopped around. Mostly look like I will choose the brand between Yamaha and Petrof. But I do not know which brand is beter. All the dealer told me their brand is beter. Could you give me some suggestion or another advise. Thanks Sincerely, Peter Yan

Subject: Re: buying a piano From: jim To: Peter Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 16:57:17 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: Peter: a better bet would be a newer 'used' piano as you do not know whether, or how long, your daughter will stick with piano. If you are committed to a new piano, you should go by personal taste -- which one sounds and feels better to you. Also critical is the price: what are the dealers asking and for which models? Jim

Subject: Re: buying a piano From: David Burton To: Peter Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 16:51:27 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Peter, My first suggestion is to look at used pianos first or even rentals. Find out if your daughter's interest is really there before going into spending several thousand dollars on a piano. They do depreciate like cars and it seems to me that piano dealers are a lot like car dealers sometimes, whether it's a matter of 6 or 8 cylinders or 88 keys. Now, besides that, have the rental or used piano looked over by a piano technician before you buy or rent it. This person is going to be more important to your piano enjoyment than an auto mechanic is to keeping your car in top performance shape. No matter what you end up you will need a good piano tech to tune and fix little things that do go out of whack with pianos. Most people don't know this, they just assume that a piano is 'built to take it' and therefore don't realize that with all those moving parts, something's bound to get 'out of whack' from normal use. And oh by the way a lot more stuff like this happens with new pianos than older one's because every piano needs to be 'broken in'. The point is that the best pianos may not even start out sounding particularly great but overtime develop. The less good pianos will never sound much better than they do when new. But anyway, before you think about plunking down a few thousand dollars for a piano, find out how interested you and your kid are. Playing the piano is an adventure and a commitment not entered into lightly. It will change your life, usually in a very positive way.

Subject: YAMAHA vs KAWAI -- UPRIGHTS and GRANDS From: Nelson Mendes To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 14:37:14 (EST) Email Address: mendesnelson@hotmail.com Message: Who can tell me which of these companies has a better sounding quality piano overall (grand & upright): KAWAI or YAMAHA. Thank You

Subject: YAMAHA vs KAWAI -- UPRIGHTS and GRANDS [nt] From: Paul To: Nelson Mendes Date Posted: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 18:11:46 (EST) Email Address: tykm423@hotmail.com Message: Who can tell me which of these companies has a better sounding quality piano overall (grand & upright): KAWAI or YAMAHA. Thank You --- I just bought a Yamaha and when I compared the Kawai to the Yamaha, I like the Yamaha better. Yamaha C1or more has duplex scaling! It has a very warm sound and you could afford it. You would not never regret what you bought. Has good quality and I fine brand name (the name doesn't matter that much)!

Subject: Re: YAMAHA vs KAWAI -- UPRIGHTS and GRANDS From: Bruce To: Nelson Mendes Date Posted: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 09:56:12 (EST) Email Address: Peano86381@aol.com Message: Nelson: Trusting your ear and emotion...is not a bad idea; but then you should also think about your wallet as well. Yamaha's are costlier, and while i believe the touch and tone are superior, the construction is much better as well. I have all the specs in case your interested. E-mail me if you want and I can give you the major construction benefits of Yamaha over Kawai. Regards Bruce

Subject: Bruce, Are you not a Yamaha salesman? From: Cork To: Bruce Date Posted: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 13:37:16 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I think your information might be a bit biased. Both brands are well-built and have their own distinct features. I doubt there are many unbiased technicians that would back your statement about construction quality. FWIW. Nice to see you back, by the way. Cork

Subject: Re: Bruce, Are you not a Yamaha salesman? From: JK To: Cork Date Posted: Fri, Jan 28, 2000 at 08:22:55 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Cork, I have been selling Yamaha pianos for over 20 years. Yamaha makes wonderful pianos,so does Kawai,so does Steinway etc.The piano business has changed for the salesperson. All we can do is show our customers the differences in manufacturing from brand A to brand B.Our opinions as salespeolpe today are low on the totem poll.Now our objections include,'I talked to a piano technician and he said','I read the Larry Fine Book and he said',I talked to a teacher and she said'.We are out-numbered with opinions. What should be a fun experience for our customers,has now become a nightmare.My customers today are so confused they don't know if they are coming or going.Manufacturing changes have also added confusion.'Boston made by Kawai for Steinway'Wurlitzer grands made by Samick for Baldwin'Weber, owned by Samsung made by Young Chang'Knabe owned by Piano Disc made by Young Chang'Kohler & Campbell made by Samick' Our customers are driving home saying 'Now what did that guy say again'? And what have I learned? Never knock a comptetiors product.because when all is said and done,if the customer likes the name,the look,the touch,and the tone, that's the piano they should buy. JK

Subject: The State of the Industry From: David Burton To: JK Date Posted: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 08:51:16 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: JK offered a very interesting post on sales people in the piano business for which I want to applaud. JK remarks concerning the changes that have gone on in the piano business saying, 'All we can do is show our customers the differences in manufacturing from brand A to brand B. Our opinions as salespeople today are low on the totem poll. Now our objections include, 'I talked to a piano technician and he said','I read the Larry Fine Book and he said',I talked to a teacher and she said'. We are out-numbered with opinions.' Maybe this was really always there but the piano industry used to go through a 'sea change' every twenty to forty to sixty years and now that's very different. For instance, I previewed the WSG series of grands by Samick which are not only excellent pianos but really quite unlike the previous offerings from this manufacturer in terms of overall quality. So I had a friend of mine check out Samick from a financial / investment standpoint and he got back to me and said that Samick, although large by comparison with other piano makers in Korea or elsewhere, almost went bankrupt a few years ago. Rumor has it that Baldwin is not in good shape and may be sold. Meanwhile Yamaha, which is on hard times due to generally hard times in Japan, is becoming more responsive to customer demands for a 'less bright' sounding piano and will be making many changes to future models. Steinway is in solid financial condition (They just bought Kluge the keyboard maker, the Kelly casting plant in Ohio, the building in NYC.) as are Mason & Hamlin, Charles Walter, Astin Weight (these four American piano makers can sell everything they make and keep practically no inventory). Most of the German piano makers are in good shape as they have scaled down their production to match demand. Ibach got into serious trouble a while back with a bold attempt to expand through manufacturing in Korea. They're on their way back up now. Petrof is currently going great guns and if you could buy stock in any company that would be the one to buy right now. Butthey may be growing too fast too. They manage to stay competitive by paying their workers less and getting an indirect subsidy from the Czech government. That can't go on forever. Changes in alignments, brands, etc. will be shifting around a lot more frequently than they ever used to before. With all this shifting around, I also predict that pianos will become more standardized; fewer models, especially in the uprights. Sales right now are 60% grand pianos. This trend is increasing. The upright piano is facing an incredible pinch. The baby grand (grands under 5'4' or so) is getting more and more sales and they are getting BETTER both in terms of construction and sound. My current picks for the best baby grand pianos are the Estonia 163 5'4' at $18K which you can have for under $12K through Beethoven Pianos in New York and the Petrof V which you can get for around $14K through Piano Piano in New York. Both of these are wonderful pianos with many years of development ahead of them; they'll improve overtime with more playing. I'll give the Estonia a slight edge because of the way it's designed. The bass comes out better. (Pssssst. The Estonia 5'4' grand is based on an old Mason & Hamlin design....). What I'm suggesting is 1) there seems to be a true 'economics of scale' when it comes to the piano building business; not too big, not too small does it and 2) the pace of change and the variety of good piano products at predictable price points should be on the increase. The price points seem to be a) around $10K, b) around $20K and the real big competition around $30K where all the exceptional deals on outrageously wonderful grand pianos are positioned. Anything above that constitutes a special order and is less important due to fewer sales. Shopping for pianos can be fun and it can be mind boggling. I still think that when I walk into a piano store and the pianos aren't sufficiently prepared I have no idea what I'm listening to or playing. I was in a place (not to be mentioned) where they had a top of the line Petrof upright in such poor prep that it sounded mediocre. It wasn't in tune, it was way out of regulation. There was no compartison to the wonderful rooms full of prepared Petrof uprights and grands at Piano Piano. Confusion? In the 1920's you could have been offered any number of names made by someone else. This was common. In a way, it has always been so. Piano manufactures seem to think that more names are better. There was also the real intention to keep the names of the master makers of pianos alive as long as possible. But really, a Chickering, Knabe, Hallet & Davis of today bears no real resemblance to the pianos made by these makers in the past. So, what's the point? Well probably sales based on name recognition. What would someone think about a piano called Jones made in Indonesia no matter how good it was? Nobody heard of Samick either. Young Chang was quite a surprise when it appeared. It took a pioneer like Yamaha to crack that one open for the rest. Look out, Pear River is coming! Never knock a competitor's product based on name or manufacturing because the name that means inferior quality today may turn out to be the quality maker of the future. I'm letting everyone know on this board that the Asian piano makers are not sleeping and they are very responsive to consumer demand for more interesting, less bright, pianos. The WSG series by Samick is really impressive. Look for more interesting pianos by Yamaha and Kawai as well as others in the future. JK says it well, 'when all is said and done, if the customer likes the name, the look, the touch, and the tone, (AND THE PRICE) that's the piano they should buy.'

Subject: Re: Bruce, Are you not a Yamaha salesman? From: jodi To: JK Date Posted: Fri, Jan 28, 2000 at 10:30:32 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I like your advice about not knocking competitors products - I am always impressed when a salesperson is that professional. How I felt about the people in the piano store had a LOT to do with who I ended up purchasing from. Customers shouldn't be confused with all of the information available today - they should be enlightened! I mean - the search is half the fun! I was unaware of SO many great brands of pianos - and am still finding out about more interesting sounding instruments that I wish I could try (the Astin Weight, and the Fazioli, for example)

Subject: Re: Bruce, Are you not a Yamaha salesman? From: JK To: jodi Date Posted: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 07:30:53 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: jodi, It is very refreshing to me that the people in the piano store had alot to do with your decsion in buying a piano. But just for my own curiosity,out of all your research, what do you think really prompted you to buy the piano you own? By the way,which pianos did you consider,and which piano did you purchase? JK

Subject: JK - what prompted me to buy the piano I own From: jodi To: JK Date Posted: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 15:03:49 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: JK - I looked seriously at the Yamaha (C2 & C3), Kawai (the 5'10' and 6'something), Petrof III (M) and IV, Young Chang P., a 1940's Baldwin 5'10' (which I really liked the sound and the action of, but it had not been rebuilt) a rebuilt 1908 Steinway (very nice, but sold before we got very far into our search), a couple of 1920's Mason & Hamlin AA's (one nice, one terrible) a rebuilt 30's Knabe (pretty, but had that old piano feel) and a old rebuilt Chickering (same feel as the Knabe). I played (for comparison's sake) the new Mason & Hamlin A and BB, most of the Steinways, a bunch of Baldwins, several Bosendorfers, Sauters and Schimmels, a Grotrian, a Steingraeber, and more that a few pianos not worth mentioning. We decided on the Charles Walter - and I got lucky - the one we were quoted the best price on was also at a store where I really liked the salespeople. (I also liked the sales people at the other Charles Walter dealer, but the piano was A LOT more expensive there) I liked the salespeople to greet me, answer any questions I had, then let me play. I disliked the places where I felt like I was buying a car. I appreciated what I felt was 'honesty' when pricing was explained to me: both when I got the 'we are more expensive that other dealers, because we put this many hours of prep into each piano', and when I got the 'Let me check on what I paid for this particular piano, and I will give you a price' I DISLIKED : 'If you buy this piano TODAY, the price is such and such, but if you purchase after the first of the year (which was tomorrow!!) the price will go up. I was disappointed in the Steinway dealer (which partially accounts for my anti-Steinway rantings a few posts back - sorry if I offended anyone!!) - I walked into the glassed- in showroom with music, played all the pianos, went outside, brought my family in to listen, played some more, and the only acknowledgement we got was a glance from the woman putting her lip gloss on at the front desk ('And you want HOW MUCH for those pianos?!' oops, sorry, there I go again) I was also disappointed at one of the Petrof dealers - the 'showroom' was too dark, the pianos were all scrunched together, sometimes you couldn't put the lid up or down on a particular piano because it was too close to the piano next to it, most of them weren't in tune, and seemed to need a fair amount of regulation and voicing (and we went back twice, three weeks apart) and I keep thinking that the Petrofs I saw are made by a different company that the ones that David keeps raving about . Anyway, I'm not sure I answered your question - I guess our final decision came down to how much we had to spend (and could afford to spend) to get the sound/touch/quality that we would be happy to live with for the rest of our lives...since I am not planning to buy another grand piano. Unless those Publisher's Clearinghouse people show up at my door sometime today - then I might just go out and get that big Steingraeber :-)

Subject: Re: JK - what prompted me to buy the piano I own From: David Burton To: jodi Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 03, 2000 at 23:33:49 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Jodi, you really did your shopping! I just read this post, can't see how I missed it. It says a lot about the importance of showroom display and especially PREPARATION. I had a late 1940's Baldwin, next size up from the 5'10' (which I really don't know that model). It held up very well for many years. I can tell you that any piano that retains an 'old piano feel' has probably not been properly restored with respect to the action. It is a weigh off problem as well as regulation required. That's too bad but it's part of the deal, unfortunately sounds like inadequate prep to me. Congratulations on the Charles Walter. Sure wish I could play one soon. Heard so much about them, all pretty good. Any store that crams pianos in so tightly that you can't get around them is really doing quite a few things wrong. 1) They probably have too many pianos out on the floor. A quality dealer will have as many as can comfortably fit and will have most if not all of them prepared to be sold. One place I went, which I will be reviewing shortly on my website, emphatically told me that certain pianos would not be stickered and offered for sale until they could be properly preped. 2) If a showroom is too dark, you can't see what you need to see so how can you decide to buy? 3) salespeople who don't know that there is a 'natural' rhythm to selling pianos, probably miss more opportunities by scaring customers away. If they were merely polite, attentive and then backed off and let people just play their pianos, they'd probably land more sales. Salespeople ARE important parts of the package. You want to buy from a salesperson you like, after all it's a big purchase. And yes, Jodi, as I said somewhere else on here, I ran into a big Petrof 131 upright that was in such bad prep that it sounded nothing like the fully preped Petrofs I'd played at another store. So it really does matter. The final decision does come down to how much one can spend and how much room one has. I'd love to own a Petrof II, but I simply don't have the room for it. And Steingraeber, when I was at Beethoven Pianos, I listed all the German piano makes with Carl Demler and we got past Bechstein, Grotrian, then Bluthner (of which I have never seen or played any) and then finally in reverential tones he said 'Steingraeber & Sohnne' stretching out the last word into a broad smile.

Subject: Re: JK - what prompted me to buy the piano I own From: jodi To: David Burton Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 11:57:09 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I hope, after all of the hype, when you do find a Charles Walter to try, that you actually LIKE it!! (Sometimes, when movies get many rave reviews, I am disappointed...) The sad thing about the Petrof dealer - it gets all sorts of awards for number of sales - so I guess they aren't likely to change.

Subject: Re: JK - what prompted me to buy the piano I own From: David Burton To: jodi Date Posted: Fri, Feb 04, 2000 at 16:17:45 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Jodi, 'The sad thing about the Petrof dealer - it gets all sorts of awards for number of sales - so I guess they aren't likely to change.' About all that can be said about these places, from the standpoint of a knowledgeable piano buyer, is to get them down on price as low as possible, since you're going to have to hire a tech and pay them a few hundred dollars just to make everything about the piano right. I still don't like places like this much.

Subject: Re: JK - what prompted me to buy the piano I own From: JK To: jodi Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 07:20:10 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: jodi, Thank you.You answered my question.I hope you recieve many years of musical enjoyment from your new Charles Walter piano.Your Steinway experience surprised me. Keep Playing :) JK

Subject: Re: Bruce, Are you not a Yamaha salesman? From: Bruce To: Cork Date Posted: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 16:32:57 (EST) Email Address: Peano86381@aol.com Message: Cork: Thanks Cork, although I know most folks on this page don't really care for folks on the sales end. I liked Yamaha long before I decided to sell the product. I know you like the Mason and Hamlin line...so if you decided to work for them, should your knowledge of Mason and Hamlin then prevent you from sharing it with others? I have polled many of the techs in my area...and was not surprised to find their opinion not unlike that of Larry Fine...concerning the quality of Yamaha. So yes I do sell Yamaha....along with other products as well...and I'm very happy to have the opportunity to share with consumers the value of their product. Best regards Bruce:-)

Subject: Re: Bruce, Are you not a Yamaha salesman? From: David Burton To: Bruce Date Posted: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 00:17:29 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Bruce says, 'although I know most folks on this page don't really care for folks on the sales end.' Wow, that's simply not true. You went on to say that you liked Yamaha before deciding to sell them, said also that since Cork liked Mason & Hamlin maybe he should sell them, etc. I for one value what the sales people in this business think, why they think it, etc. Since you are a salesman I'll be happy to give you a few of my pet peeves; 1) pianos that are displayed for sale without being prepared, tuned, voiced, etc. You know, it must be great to have hundreds of pianos on hand, but who cares if they're all out of tune and not prepared to be sold? You can't even play such a piano. I visited such a place in New York and I will not bother to embarrass them by giving them a negative review. I'll just call one of the makes of pianos they sell and complain stoutly that they are doing a disservice to one of my favorite brands. 2) signs that say 'Don't Play this Piano', besides being just plain STUPID, it's equally embarrassing when the piano in question is neither in tune nor properly prepped. 3) pedals that are loose or sloppy. I like mine tight, you know like accelerator pedals on cars. What do you suppose whold happen if your gas pedal was as sloppy as most damper pedals were on most pianos? This is a problem even in the best stores. TIGHTEN THOSE PEDALS!! 4) salespeople that act as though they have to affect some 'snobbier than though' attitude in order to sell their product. This was a particular trait of Steinway salesmen although finally it is beginning to change. No, we all in some sense pleased to deal with piano salespeople. As one guy suggested it isn't exactly a growth industry. Maybe we can change that.

Subject: Re: Bruce, Are you not a Yamaha salesman? From: Bruce To: David Burton Date Posted: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 00:07:15 (EST) Email Address: peano86381@aol.com Message: David: Your preachin' to the choir!! Imagine my discomfort when I 'hawk' Larry Fine's Piano Bible,:-)...and then see some of things he complains about actually happening at times in the store where I decided to work cause I wanted to sell the Yamaha!! But I'm just a peon salesman with less than 6 months on the job, I have no clout when it comes to letting my manager know about certain things that need to be corrected. It all boils down to 'money'..from what I can see. And believe me when I tell you, if I had the funds to open up MY OWN Yamaha dealership...things would be run in such a way that I would challenge Larry Fine to come in unannouned and review my place!! So I can only do so much, but Im not giving up! I will continue to challenge the powers at be to do the things that are correct to the customers regardless of cost. My theory is if you can't afford 'the cash cow' get out of the business. Well I've said enough, and really I should not be a 'whistle blower'..but at times it is very frustrating. But I live on 'faith'...and have almost my entire adult life..and somehow I feel that if I'm persistant I can and will change things in the store where I work. So Dave I'm all ears to your pet peeves 4 sure!...regards Bruce

Subject: Re: Bruce, Are you not a Yamaha salesman? From: David Burton To: Bruce Date Posted: Wed, Jan 19, 2000 at 03:31:06 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Well and good Bruce. One of my coming reviews is of such a man with strong opinions about pianos;1) he doesn't like most rebuilt pianos but contends that there are a few people out there he respects, but he wont buy pianos over twenty years old. 2) he loves Yamahas and Baldwins and does incredible things with them. Yes, Baldwins. He makes them play and sound well on a par with the Steinway and Mason & Hamlin. 3) He believes in keeping a small showroom of fully prepared pianos as the kinds and sizes he sells are in only a few categories. When he sells what he has on the floor he brings in more and preps them, etc. I have found that there are certain venues that are frankly not serious places to look for pianos. Shopping malls top my list. A piano store in such noisy places cannot give any serious customer any idea of what they are looking at or playing. The best places for pianos are usually off by themselves; little places even in small, out of the way towns, like that place outside Boulder, Colorado in some town nobody has ever heard of. Also in big cities there are usually one or two in some old industrial building close to the hall where the local symphony orchestra plays. A piano store that is set up to be a special place of pilgrimage rather than a quickie in a mall is always better. They usually have better instruments, more knowledgeable staff, etc. I hope, Bruce, that you work in one of these.

Subject: Re: Bruce, more on Yamaha From: CC To: Bruce Date Posted: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 21:58:40 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Bruce, I thought you might like this story about Yamaha. I purchased my Yamaha from a dealer in Grand Forks, ND. As you may know, they experienced a devastating flood not long ago. Yamaha was the only company that was willing to give major price breaks to area customers that allowed him to stay in business. He is extremely proud to carry Yamaha because of their emphasis on customer service alone. He swears Yamaha will do anything he asks to ensure the customer is completely satisfied. I live almost 100 miles away, yet when I had a concern about one note after my Yamaha was delivered (this note had slipped out of tune just a little during the move, and needed to be voiced down just a bit), he had a tech drive down immediately. I also had my own tech check it over, as I wanted an unbiased opinion, and when he found out about that, he paid my tech's bill as well. He even offered to order another piano if I wanted him to, just say the word! Of course, that wasn't necessary, the piano sounded fine to me after the note was voiced down. My tech was surprised I could even hear that.

Subject: Re: Bruce, more on Yamaha From: Bruce To: CC Date Posted: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 23:12:53 (EST) Email Address: peano86381@aol.com Message: CC...thanks for sharing your story!.....their customer service does speak for itself. Happy to hear your concerns were addressed! What model are you playing? Thanks again:-)...Bruce

Subject: Re: Bruce, more on Yamaha From: CC To: Bruce Date Posted: Mon, Jan 17, 2000 at 22:18:48 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: We just have a studio, the T116. We purchased a piano because I wanted to start playing again (after being away from it for a very long time) and also wanted my children to start playing. Couldn't really afford more at this time, but we're definitely getting a lot of enjoyment from it.

Subject: BUILD QUALITY ------YAMAHA... vs... KAWAI From: Nelson Mendes To: Bruce Date Posted: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 03:15:05 (EST) Email Address: mendesnelson@hotmail.com Message: Bruce, Have you been to the KAWAI homepage? It is pretty impressive and persuasive. They appear to be quite confident that their product is superior and back up most of their claims. I prefer the clear sound of a YAMAHA (as does Elton John, Jim Brickman, and YANNI...among others). Tell me what you think about KAWAI's page and please let me know how it compares to your comparison of how YAMAHA's are built. Thanks!!!

Subject: Re: BUILD QUALITY ------YAMAHA... vs... KAWAI From: Dan To: Nelson Mendes Date Posted: Tues, Jan 18, 2000 at 11:54:05 (EST) Email Address: DARCEE@aol.com Message: You bring up a good point. KAWAI's home page and their literature are excellent. But have you seen Yamaha's CD on their manufacturing, construction, model availability etc.? It's free and wonderful. Just go to the Yamaha website and order. I just ordered a Yamaha C2 after agonizing between the KAWAI and Yamaha. I got a lot of help from people on this forum. The best recommendation I got was listen to each and select the sound you like best. Both piano salespeople played each instrument for me willingly and it really helped.

Subject: Re: Well, that did it .... From: Joy To: Nelson Mendes Date Posted: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 17:20:17 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: ...if YANNI likes Yamaha, I'd run and grab a Kawai, no contest!!! Seriously though, seems to me it also depends upon the type of music you play. My own piano tech (the Steinway fan) tends to recommend Yamaha for teenagers who like to bang and wail away on the keyboard, or play like Elton John. The warm tone crowd seems to lean toward the classical repetoire plus other genres. You need a variety of warm complex tones and with a great piano you have a wide degree of control over the various possibilities. With rock n roll or YANNI-stuff, this doesn't seem to be to be as much of an issue.

Subject: BRUCE!!! T-121 vs U1 From: Nelson Mendes To: Bruce Date Posted: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 00:18:41 (EST) Email Address: mendesnelson@hotmail.com Message: Bruce, What is the difference between the T-121 and the U1? The specs are exactly the same for both except that the U1 weighs 25 lbs more. They both use spruce for the sound board and back post material, the sound board is the same size(2,137 inches), the #1 String is the same length (44.5 inches). Thanks Bruce, Nelson

Subject: Re: BRUCE!!! T-121 vs U1 From: Bruce To: Nelson Mendes Date Posted: Sun, Jan 16, 2000 at 16:41:17 (EST) Email Address: Peano86381@aol.com Message: Nelson I have not had the chance to look at the 121....believe it's put together in Taiwan...the cabinet is probably of cheaper material...will be at the Yamaha factory next month in Georgia, will see what I can find out and pass it on to you. My dealer has decided not to carry the 121 as stock yet. Wish I had more info....regards Bruce

Subject: Re: BRUCE!!! T-121 vs U1 From: Gabi To: Bruce Date Posted: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 00:14:26 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Is the 121 built in Taiwan or Thomasville, Georgia? Our dealer told us that the 'T' in front of 121 stands for Thomasville, not Taiwan... What do you know about it?

Subject: BRUCE!!! T-121 vs U1 From: Nelson Mendes To: Bruce Date Posted: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 00:18:29 (EST) Email Address: mendesnelson@hotmail.com Message: Nelson: Trusting your ear and emotion...is not a bad idea; but then you should also think about your wallet as well. Yamaha's are costlier, and while i believe the touch and tone are superior, the construction is much better as well. I have all the specs in case your interested. E-mail me if you want and I can give you the major construction benefits of Yamaha over Kawai. Regards Bruce --- Bruce, What is the difference between the T-121 and the U1? The specs are exactly the same for both except that the U1 weighs 25 lbs more. They both use spruce for the sound board and back post material, the sound board is the same size(2,137 inches), the #1 String is the same length (44.5 inches). Thanks Bruce, Nelson

Subject: Re: YAMAHA vs KAWAI -- UPRIGHTS and GRANDS From: Ben To: Bruce Date Posted: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 00:05:13 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Bruce, can you tell me the difference between KAWAI'S RX-1 and YAHMAAH C-1? I've been to both dealers selling them and each tell me that theirs is superior than the other. Any comments?

Subject: Re: YAMAHA vs KAWAI -- UPRIGHTS and GRANDS From: Cork To: Nelson Mendes Date Posted: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 22:27:34 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Who can tell me which of these companies has a better sounding quality piano overall (grand & upright): KAWAI or YAMAHA. Thank You --- No one can. These are equivalent quality pianos, and the decision on which is 'better sounding' is entirely personal. You might prefer one, someone else might prefer the other. And you would both be right. Educate your ear, then trust it.

Subject: Re: YAMAHA vs KAWAI -- UPRIGHTS and GRANDS From: jodi To: Cork Date Posted: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 11:21:45 (EST) Email Address: jodi@radon.chem.uidaho.edu Message: Cork is right - it is up to you to decide, just make SURE you play as many different brands of piano you can find, and different pianos within that brand NUMEROUS times before you make that decision! I am off this weekend to try some more Petrofs and Charles Walters. Oh, and my mom just bought a Yamaha U1 (which she loves), put it in a small room, with windows really close to the neighbor's house and is finding she has to play with the soft pedal locked down... Jodi

Subject: YAMAHA vs KAWAI -- listen carefully From: Joy To: jodi Date Posted: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 15:52:00 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I third what Cork said. We know a piano teacher who was a strong Kawai proponent -- she is one of the ' warm tone 'crowd -- until she switched recently to Petrof. Most people seem to agree that Yamaha and Kawai are of equal quality (they are GOOD) across the board, they just sound different (bright vs warm).

Subject: Re: YAMAHA vs KAWAI -- listen carefully From: Ben To: Joy Date Posted: Sat, Jan 15, 2000 at 22:29:37 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I think what Joy said justified the difference between KAWAI and YAMAHA.

Subject: THANKS CORK !!!!!! From: Nelson Mendes To: Cork Date Posted: Thurs, Jan 13, 2000 at 22:50:40 (EST) Email Address: mendesnelson@hotmail.com Message: I believe you are quite right. Such a simple answer and so true. It allows me to trust myself and follow my ear and emotion. Thanks

Subject: Re: THANKS CORK !!!!!! From: Patti To: Nelson Mendes Date Posted: Fri, Jan 14, 2000 at 09:52:35 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: For whatever it's worth, I like Kawai better.

Subject: Replacing Keys From: Karl Sampara To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 03, 2000 at 16:54:39 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Does anyone no how to go about obtaining replacement keys? thanks for the help Karl

Subject: Re: Replacing Keys From: sam lewis piano To: Karl Sampara Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 03, 2000 at 21:32:01 (EST) Email Address: samlewis@peoplepc.com Message: Karl-try Rick Wheeler at 503-654-1888

Subject: Dimensions From: Karl Sampara To: All Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 03, 2000 at 16:11:50 (EST) Email Address: ksampara@cmetele.com Message: Hi I am looking for dimensions associated with keys and their attached actions. I have seen the diagrams posted but they lack dimensions. Thanks for the help. Karl

Subject: Mason & Hamlin vs. Steinway From: Angelique To: All Date Posted: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 08:02:41 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I've been reading Forum postings for several months and continue to be amazed by the number of factors to be considered when buying a piano and the variety of pianos to choose from. I grew up playing a Steinway baby grand (my parents' piano) and am going to buy my own first piano soon. I planned to buy a Steinway (Model M or L) and hadn't given much thought to any other brand until I began reading about Mason & Hamlin pianos in the Forum. Are they really as good as Steinways and as good quality as everyone seems to think? There's a dealer about 1 1/2 hours from where I live. I haven't gone there yet. Is it worth the drive? How much would the 5'8' piano cost compared to the Steinway M or L (my apartment is too small to accommodate a larger piano). I grew up believing that a Steinway was the only piano that anyone should want to own--a piano to aspire to, so to speak--but after reading the raves that other piano brands have gotten, I'm beginning to feel like I was brainwashed. Thank you for your help.

Subject: Re: Mason & Hamlin vs. Steinway From: jim To: Angelique Date Posted: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 05:59:34 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: Angelique: The Mason and Hamlins are outstanding pianos and should cost much less than a Steinway M or L. You should be able to purchase the M+H A in the low to mid 20s, while a Steinway M (which is smaller) will cost you more than $30k and an L will cost $40k. Of course, the best way to make this decision is to go and play the M+H A first. After you have played it, please post your reaction as well as the price that the dealer is asking. Jim

Subject: Re: Mason & Hamlin vs. Steinway From: Mary To: Angelique Date Posted: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 14:08:53 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I too must admit to owning a Steinway L. I played a number of them prior to buying and I found the M&H to be muddy in the base, and generaly unbalanced (though I admit a tech could probably have helped them a bit). The reason Steinway is not a hands down winner is it's price. I found if you look for used and wait you can beat that game.

Subject: Re: Mason & Hamlin vs. Steinway From: Mat D. To: Angelique Date Posted: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 20:44:59 (EST) Email Address: antmaril@aol.com Message: Angelique, you will have to be the judge of what you like best, but I can promise you, you won't be sorry you made the trip to see the Mason & Hamlin 5'8'--it is a wonderful piano (IMO it is the best piano that I know of up to 6' range) Let us know, Mat D.

Subject: Re: Mason & Hamlin vs. Steinway From: jodi To: Angelique Date Posted: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 10:36:46 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Honestly, I do think you were brainwashed. I am constantly amazed at how many Steinways I DON'T like. They are SO expensive, and I KNOW that they are extremely well built, and they do have a marvelous base sound (but then so does the Mason & Hamlin) - but the mid to upper register does nothing for me. So far, I have only liked one small (5'10ish') one - a rebuilt 1909 one.. All of the new ones in that size I have played were really unimpressive. Except when I got to the 7' - then I started to like it - and I did really like the concert grand. But at that price, I would purchase either the Steingraeber or a Bosendorfer, not the Steinway. The Mason & Hamlin is a WONDERFUL piano - and several people on this site have gotten really good prices on them - $33K for the BB (7') in a really lovely mahagany finish with ebony topped Mahogany keys, and $26K for the A (5'8'). They both have that specatular big warm Mason & Hamlin sound, you really should check them out. Take your time with this decision, and check out some of the other brands we have been talking about here - so you can really make a good decision - Sauter, Charles Walter, Petrof, etc - Oh (are we sounding like a broken record?!) and buy Larry Fine's 'The Piano Book: buying and owning a new or used piano' Good Luck and Happy Hunting!

Subject: Re: Mason & Hamlin vs. Steinway From: ryan To: jodi Date Posted: Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 10:37:24 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: I agree with Jodi, I don't tend to like the smaller Steinway grands, although the L can be made into a pretty good piano. I don't really like most grands under 6', though (except Steingraeber), and I think I might actually like the M&H A better than the Steinway L. It's difficult to tell, though, because most Steinways you encounter in the showroom are generally not prepared as thoroughly as they need to be. I think a lot of dealers only prepare them just enough to pass with people who don't know that much about pianos but want a Steinway. One time I visited a dealer and played all his floor models, and thought they were nice, but not as impressive as I had hoped. Then he offered to take me to the back where the 'good' piano was kept, a D. It had abviously had many, many hours of work on voicing and fine tuning, because it was one of the best grand pianos I have ever played. It was simply breathtaking. Better than any other D I had encountered in a showroom. Of course they wanted more for that piano, and it took a while to sell, but did eventually sell to one lucky customer. There are definately some other fine pianos to look at in the 6' range, and it's really worth trying them all out before you make a decision, including driving to play that M&H.

Subject: Re: Mason & Hamlin vs. Steinway From: jodi To: ryan Date Posted: Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 11:18:48 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I think that what Ryan points out is the most frustrating part of the whole piano hunt! There is so little prep done on so many of these pianos - and it is difficult to make an informed decision if you can't play a particular brand brought up to its potential as a fine musical instrument. But then, maybe a lot of buyers aren't as picky as we all are... (most of the salesman we encountered were surprised that my husband and I actually PLAYED.)

Subject: Re: Mason & Hamlin vs. Steinway From: Angelique To: ryan Date Posted: Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 11:01:43 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Ryan, thank you for your information. The Steinway L is the piano I've been considering. I found one that sounds pretty good already. Wish I had room for a B (or D!), but I really like my apartment and space just wouldn't permit. I'm not familiar with the Steingraeber. Can you tell me something about it and why you like it even though it's shorter than 6'. It's an imported European piano, I assume? I am going to make the trip to try out the M&H 5'8' as soon as the weather breaks a bit. This is actually becoming fun. For me, space is more of a consideration than price so it's exciting to learn about these options. Andrew, thank you for your information,too. In the time that I've been reading Forum postings, I believe you're the only individual who has admitted to owning a Steinway. My parents' piano is a mahogany M and it's a lovely piano, to see, to play and to hear.

Subject: Re: Mason & Hamlin vs. Steinway From: David Burton To: Angelique Date Posted: Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 21:44:25 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Yes, isn’t it amazing when you walk into a showroom full of pianos selling in the tens of thousands of dollars and the salespeople are amazed that you can play? Why on earth would one buy a great piano if not to really play it? If you want to size up Steinways and Mason & Hamlins side by side all in excellent prep, you might as well find a place like Faust Harrison in New York. The Steinways are subtle beasts that take many years of playing to work into their own greatness, kind of like a very expensive good pair of shoes. The Mason & Hamlins have more “come out and grab you” sorts of qualities about them, but they are such monsters, even the A is a BIG piano, that can range from as subtle as the Steinways to almost frighteningly awesome. These pianos are capable of teaching pianists how to become better pianists in ways that maybe the Steinways may lack. No one should ever feel they made a “second best” decision buying a Mason & Hamlin, never! There are also a few others that deserve the same accolades for quite different reasons. Again it really depends on one’s temperament.

Subject: Re: Mason & Hamlin vs. Steinway From: ryan To: David Burton Date Posted: Fri, Jan 28, 2000 at 10:08:37 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: I think that when you get into the realm of quality instruments, the only remaining factor is personal preference and temperment. That's why it's so important to try out lots of instruments. Speaking of which, David, I am eagerly awaiting more writeups about your New York trip. Are you still buried in snow?

Subject: Re: Mason & Hamlin vs. Steinway From: David Burton To: ryan Date Posted: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 09:46:36 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Thanks Ryan, Yes, current conditions here; a foot of snow on the ground, the usual mountains of ice and snow piling up around the village, clear temp -3, wind chill down to -20. LOL. Best to stay inside and practice, practice, practice!!! But yes, I had a few days of WORK to put in and now will continue with pages on Beethoven Pianos and Piano Piano, the second and third of the 'big three' I visited there. I hope everyone really got into what I put into my website so far though as there is some important information especially concerning rebuilt Steinways. These were really astounding. Then there were those Mason & Hamlins. Really folks, the BB is like having a concert grand. The A is already BIG although they can sound sweet too. Mason & Hamlin pianos are built HEAVY too. You'd better have a good solid floor under one and don't bother trying to get one up too high in a building unless you can hire a crane. Just kidding, but they are HEAVY. I played 2 BB's and about half a dozen A's. They were all slightly different and I really couldn't decide which one I liked best, probably that rebuilt AA since it was in that mysteriously dark African Mahogany. Faust Harrison certainly does an exquisite job of rebuilding pianos and they do so many! It pays to visit them.

Subject: Re: Mason & Hamlin vs. Steinway From: Alex To: David Burton Date Posted: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 18:13:44 (EST) Email Address: filak@wans.net Message: Thanks Ryan, Yes, current conditions here; a foot of snow on the ground, the usual mountains of ice and snow piling up around the village, clear temp -3, wind chill down to -20. LOL. Best to stay inside and practice, practice, practice!!! But yes, I had a few days of WORK to put in and now will continue with pages on Beethoven Pianos and Piano Piano, the second and third of the 'big three' I visited there. I hope everyone really got into what I put into my website so far though as there is some important information especially concerning rebuilt Steinways. These were really astounding. Then there were those Mason & Hamlins. Really folks, the BB is like having a concert grand. The A is already BIG although they can sound sweet too. Mason & Hamlin pianos are built HEAVY too. You'd better have a good solid floor under one and don't bother trying to get one up too high in a building unless you can hire a crane. Just kidding, but they are HEAVY. I played 2 BB's and about half a dozen A's. They were all slightly different and I really couldn't decide which one I liked best, probably that rebuilt AA since it was in that mysteriously dark African Mahogany. Faust Harrison certainly does an exquisite job of rebuilding pianos and they do so many! It pays to visit them. --- David, welcome to the world of the rebuilt piano. As I've said here before, a classic rebuilt piano IMHO is the best value for the dollar (providing you find a quality rebuilder). I probably will never look for a new piano again. Anyway, having played a number of rebuilt classics (prior to 1930) this is my list, in order, of the best pianos to rebuild. I would be curious of any one else's opinion. 1. Steinway 2. Baldwin 3. M&H 4. Knabe That said, it is time for me to inflame the wrath of this forum. Don't get me wrong, I like the new Mason and Hamlins. It's just that I find them more suited to chamber music and accompanying than to solo piano literature. Personnally, I would save the money and purchase a new Petrof before a new M&H. Just one man's opinion.

Subject: Re: Mason & Hamlin vs. Steinway From: David Burton To: Alex Date Posted: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 12:28:48 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Alex concludes with, 'That said, it is time for me to inflame the wrath of this forum. Don't get me wrong, I like the new Mason and Hamlins. It's just that I find them more suited to chamber music and accompanying than to solo piano literature. Personnally, I would save the money and purchase a new Petrof before a new M&H. Just one man's opinion.' That's just fine Alex, that's why there are so many pianos out there to choose from. And of course since they don't all sound exactly the same, even by the same maker, you really have to find the piano that you like the best. I have nothing against any of the outstanding pianos I have mentioned. I was surprised at some that I really lingered at a while; the rebuilt Steinway M at Faust Harrison, the August Forster and the Estonias at Beethoven, the Petrofs at Piano Piano. The Mason & Hamlins were certainly wonderful. I played the Beethoven Pathetique 1st movement, just a bit, on a BB and could hear everything clearly, each phrase came out perfectly shaped, no muddiness. Someone else said that a M&H seemed muddy, well I wonder now how much this has to do with technical preparation? This is emerging as a critical matter! Anyway, yes, there are a number of great pianos out there right now. Oh and as for rebuilding, I like your list, but I'd include Chickering as well.

Subject: Re: Mason & Hamlin vs. Steinway From: Angelique To: David Burton Date Posted: Fri, Jan 28, 2000 at 08:34:36 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thank you one and all for your advice and suggestions. I feel like I have a huge family of Dutch uncles (and aunts!) who are all eager to steer me on the right path. David Burton, you stated at the end of your post that there are 'a few others [pianos] that deserve the same accolades for quite different reasons.' Would you mind elaborating on what you believe those 'others' are and for what different reasons they deserve accolades? Joy, you are so right when you tell people that the 'piano search' can be fun. I'm enjoying myself already, and I've only begun!

Subject: Re: Mason & Hamlin vs. Steinway From: David Burton To: Angelique Date Posted: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 10:22:20 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Angelique, I am going to put three more on my website soon. I'll give you the names though; Estonia, Petrof and Samick (WSG series only). These pianos all have a more European sound to them. I didn't get any pictures of the Estonias unfortunately. The NEW Estonia pianos might just be my favorite of the three because they have many qualities in common with the Petrof but are a bit cheaper. I would own the Estonia 6'3' grand in a heartbeat. I also liked something about the way they sounded from middle c down although it's really a close one. The Estonia 5'4' baby grand is simply astounding. You don't think you're playing a baby grand at all. It sounds like most 6' grands. The secret is the case design, which uses the 'bell shape' of say a Steinway L, but in a wider tail allowing more resonance. It is said to be a copy of an early Mason & Hamlin. There is also something about the Estonia soundboards, they're either Finnish or Siberian spruce and have an elegant tone. Beethoven Pianos in New York is the largest dealer of these pianos. Go see them, talk to Carl Demler, he's a great gentleman. You'll be amazed. The Petrof V is also an interesting baby grand with a good developed bass for its size and something else about this piano, it gets better with age. I saw two, a brand new one and one that was traded in for a larger (also Petrof) grand. The used one was actually better sounding than the new one. Again folks, prep and maintenance as well as PLAYING of a piano makes it better if it's any good to begin with. But if you have the space and want a European piano, the big Petrofs are amazing! They are like Bosendorfers. Call or visit Piano Piano in New York. Talk to Bruce Nidd, a 30 year veteran piano salesman, also a great gentleman. He'll give you the skinny on Petrof. Oh and by the way, Bruce knows Steinway from way back, his family used to own five stores. The third rival and oh my, is Samick of all names to even consider. They have decided to really play in this business with their new WSG series grands. Play one and close your eyes and decide what you think you're playing? Is it Bosendorfer? Is it Steinway? Nope, it's SAMICK! Yikes! Check the price tag. Think about it. Are they really that good? Maybe not, but how close are they getting? Piano Piano again has these. There are a few others. August Forster is another piano I would own in a heartbeat. Beethoven Pianos. They also had some Sauters, very nice and affordable. The only thing is you have an apartment and you need the space. There are other options. By the way I played a rebuilt Mahogany Steinway M that was simply excellent, with that 'noble' Steinway sound. You aren't exactly brainwashed in thinking that Steinway quality stands the test of time, but there are many more players that deserve consideration. Mason & Hamlin. I'd love to recomend Walter but haven't seen or played any so can't comment on them. Oh and Schulze-Pollmann. They make a great piano too.

Subject: Estonia Pianos From: Angelique To: David Burton Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 09:50:06 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hello again, David Burton, Pursuant to the rave reviews you gave to Estonia pianos recently, I decided to do some research and found the following which appeared on May 10, 1996 in 'The Detroit News' Entertainment Guide. 'DSO conductor's favorite piano will soon sell in the U.S.: Occupying a corner of Neeme Jarvi's home is a 6-foot-3-inch Estonia Piano. The sleek instrument is an import from his native homeland, crafted by Estonian piano-makers in a tradition that dates back nearly 200 years. Jarvi, music director of the Detroit Symphony Orchestra, will be honored at a May 21 reception at the Evola Concert Hall in Bloomfield Hills. The reception, open to the public, will celebrate the introduction of Estonia Pianos to the United States.' Sounds to me like they're pretty good instruments. Guess I'll have to check them out before I make a purchase. Thank you for sharing your wisdom and experience so generously.

Subject: Re: Estonia Pianos From: Cork To: Angelique Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 11:36:03 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Angelique, The Estonia was picked up by one of the better dealerships in my area last year, and I spend several hours playing small, medium, and concert grands. My own impression is that they compare favorably with Petrofs in tone, particularly in the evenness across the scale. They seemed to have a bit less of a problem in the 'killer octave', and the high treble held up nicely. The Renner actions were set up to have an incredibly light touch, which I found unusual and a bit of an adjustment. One of my friends works at the dealership (which is also the local Yamaha dealer), and told me that they come from the factory that way, and that Estonia is very proud of it. I'd be very interested if you find the same light touch when you play an Estonia in the future. Quality level in the Estonias has risen dramatically in the last few years, and even techs that were completely anti-Estonia five years ago now acknowledge that they've come a long way. Definitely an instrument worth considering. Cork

Subject: Re: Estonia Pianos From: David Burton To: Cork Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 16:05:26 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Cork says, 'The Renner actions were set up to have an incredibly light touch, which I found unusual and a bit of an adjustment. One of my friends works at the dealership (which is also the local Yamaha dealer), and told me that they come from the factory that way, and that Estonia is very proud of it. I'd be very interested if you find the same light touch when you play an Estonia in the future.' I'm surprised in that I didn't find the actions especially light, but I did find them responsive. There was enough resistance but not like playing on eggshells. I'll tell you frankly Cork, I'd really love to own one of their 6'3' grands some day.The Estonia was one of the biggest shocks on my recent tour.

Subject: Re: Estonia Pianos From: ryan To: David Burton Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 11:07:11 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: Just a point of trivia, Estonia was using a Schwander type action in their 6'3' grand, built by Herrburger Brooks, the same company that builds the Langer action for Charles Walter verticals. They use Renner actions in their 9' grands.

Subject: Re: Estonia Pianos From: David Burton To: ryan Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 13:49:00 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Ryan notes, 'Just a point of trivia, Estonia was using a Schwander type action in their 6'3' grand, built by Herrburger Brooks, the same company that builds the Langer action for Charles Walter verticals. They use Renner actions in their 9' grands.' They don't any more. They're all Renner now. But I'm just curious how long ago were they using Herrburger Brooks actions?

Subject: Re: Estonia Pianos From: ryan To: David Burton Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 03, 2000 at 10:50:24 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: Larry Fine stated this in his '94 edition of the Piano Book. Estonia must have switched over to Renner not too long ago.

Subject: Re: Estonia Pianos From: Cork To: David Burton Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 16:31:02 (EST) Email Address: cvdh@my-Deja.com Message: David: 'I'm surprised in that I didn't find the actions especially light, but I did find them responsive. There was enough resistance but not like playing on eggshells. I'll tell you frankly Cork, I'd really love to own one of their 6'3' grands some day. The Estonia was one of the biggest shocks on my recent tour.' Definitely a different experience than mine. David, the concert grand's touch felt as light as a U1 upright. I got up and walked around the piano to make sure it really was 9'! But the tone was superb, and it only took a few moments to become accustomed to the touch. I'm just not used to that light a touch in a grand; it was even lighter than the old Schimmel action they used to put in their 6'10' grand. Very nice pianos, though. Cork

Subject: Re: Estonia Pianos From: jodi To: Angelique Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 10:54:41 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Check out the Estonias - I only played the 5'4' model, but was impressed by the sound - it seemed like a bigger piano - let us know what you think!

Subject: Re: Mason & Hamlin vs. Steinway From: Rob To: David Burton Date Posted: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 10:31:56 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: hello - i'm new to piano forum... hope i'm not barging in...do you know anything about Schulze Pollmann uprights?? I'm debating the Boston Up-125E vs SP 126E - both felt and sounded great with a incredible high register on the SP and a warmth lower register in the Boston. Both felt great to my touch and i was able to live in the keys on both.

Subject: Re: Mason & Hamlin vs. Steinway From: ryan To: Angelique Date Posted: Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 14:10:38 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: I was talking a bit tongue-in-cheek, becuase even though the Steingraeber is by far the best piano I have encountered in that size, it's darn expensive pretty rare in the US! They are imported from Bavaria. Their 5'8' that has exceptional tone and bass response. If you are interested in seeing one, there is one at Chris Finger Piano in Niwott Colorado. It is a spectacularly beautiful instrument in ebony with burl walnut on the inside of the fallboard and under the lid. It's worth taking a trip out there because he also carries Bosendorfer, Grotrian, Satuer, and Schimmel, for a great sampling of German pianos. Ryan

Subject: 5'8' Steingraeber From: jodi To: ryan Date Posted: Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 18:24:12 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: How did I miss playing the 5'8' Steingraeber?? (I only saw the almost 7' model) Is it new? Or was I just overwhelmed by everything else and overlooked it... bummer.

Subject: Re: 5'8' Steingraeber From: ryan To: jodi Date Posted: Fri, Jan 28, 2000 at 09:58:41 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: It's been there for as long as the 7', I think. Looks like you'll have to make another trip:-) I was at Chris Finger last night playing the 6'1' Sauter grand, and it sure is a nice piano. Not quite as complex or dark as Steinway, yet very rich and singing and a wonderful action.

Subject: Re: 5'8' Steingraeber From: jodi To: ryan Date Posted: Fri, Jan 28, 2000 at 10:06:31 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I'm trying to figure out how I can get my family up there so I can do that ('honey - would you like to run up and down the main street of NIwot chasing the kids for a couple of hours... AGAIN?') - of course, I would also have to walk in there and tell them I'm buying the Walter someplace else. :-)

Subject: Re: Mason & Hamlin vs. Steinway From: Andrew To: ryan Date Posted: Thurs, Jan 27, 2000 at 14:18:21 (EST) Email Address: andrew.gan@prodigy.net Message: Ryan, Could you please give me directions to Chris Finger Piano. One of these days I will drive up there like a child visiting a fancy candy store. If you could, mail me at the address above. Thanks in advance. Andrew

Subject: Re: Mason & Hamlin vs. Steinway From: Andrew To: Angelique Date Posted: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 10:15:34 (EST) Email Address: andrew.gan@prodigy.net Message: Sounds like your playing experience is limited to Steinway pianos. Dont get me wrong. Steinway pianos are top of the line instruments. I am a very happy owner of one model M. If you have never tried M&H, it seems to be the case, then you really should drive all the way out to play on a few grands by M&H. To be honoest, I have played more unprepared Steinways than M&Hs. M&Hs are at least on the same level of Steinway in every way. In some individual M&H grands I played they seem to be a tad more gratifying than most Steinways that I have laid my hands on. I strongly recommend to try for yourself. Buying a piano is like buying a house. One should really go out and look at at least a few to a dozen within a price range before one should form any idea as to what particular brand or model will be the best. Mason & Hamlin makes magnificent grand pianos. One thing to keep in mind, their grands are almost always much heavier than the comparable size pianos by other brands. Andrew

Subject: Re: Mason & Hamlin vs. Steinway From: Joy To: Andrew Date Posted: Wed, Jan 26, 2000 at 11:10:45 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I still remember fondly when we brought our Steinway-trained technician to evaluate our used Mason & Hamlin upright at the seller's home. After he finished his examination, he whispered out of earshot of the owner 'You must get this piano. It'll be like having a Steinway.'

Subject: Speaking of Gershwin transcriptions, From: Cork To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 23:40:35 (EST) Email Address: cvdh@my-Deja.com Message: Has anyone tried the transcriptions from George Gershwin's piano rolls that Artis Wodehouse has put together? I've been tempted to try them, but I generally prefer to see sheet music before I buy it. Cork

Subject: Re: Speaking of Gershwin transcriptions, From: David Burton To: Cork Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 23:56:05 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Cork comments, 'Has anyone tried the transcriptions from George Gershwin's piano rolls that Artis Wodehouse has put together? I've been tempted to try them, but I generally prefer to see sheet music before I buy it.' I'm a little confused here Cork. Has Artis put together transcriptions as in recordings of Gershwin piano rolls like the recordings of Rachmaninoff from his? Or has he transcribed the music onto sheet music? Either would interesting, but the sheet music would be really cool if I were interested in learning all the Gershwin I could. I've never seen it, but I am told that sheet music transcriptions of Art Tatum's stuff exists. I'd sure like to get hold of that stuff.

Subject: Re: Speaking of Gershwin transcriptions, From: Cork To: David Burton Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 03, 2000 at 09:43:25 (EST) Email Address: cvdh@my-Deja.com Message: David, These are sheet music transcriptions of original piano roll performances by Gershwin (as well as Fats Waller, I think). I have a few albums of piano roll performances like the Rachmaninoff, including an album of Paderewski; they are fascinating. Artis Wodehouse is a music historian, I believe. Her website is: http://www.keyboardwizards.com/Default.htm in case you are interested. As for Tatum transcripts, they'd be interesting to see but as far as me playing them . . . well, I think there might be too much black stuff on the paper, if you know what I mean!

Subject: JK: Reply on Yamaha/Kawai From: Cork To: All Date Posted: Fri, Jan 28, 2000 at 11:02:05 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thought it might make sense to start a new thread on this. JK, I think you'll find that we are in complete agreement. My issues with Bruce's post were: one, asserting superiority of construction over a competing brand that most unbiased observers consider of fairly equivalent quality; and two, failing to note that he was a salesman representing Yamaha. Taken together, these perceived faults prompted my response. To quote a section from your post: 'Yamaha makes wonderful pianos, so does Kawai, so does Steinway, etc.' Absolutely agree. Further: 'And what have I learned? Never knock a competitors product . . . ' which was precisely what I was criticizing Bruce for doing. And finally: ' . . . because when all is said and done, if the customer likes the name, the look, the touch, and the tone, that's the piano they should buy.' Bravo! Although I don't post much anymore, I think if you reviewed my past comments you'd find that my counsel is: play lots of pianos, take your time, decide what you like and what you don't in tone and touch, and buy the piano that sings to you. It isn't important that Bruce thinks that Yamaha hung the moon or that Larry Fine thinks the S&S B is the finest piano in the planet or that Mat loves his M&H BB. All that matters is that the person paying for the piano should buy the one they love. We can give some guidance on this forum, but we cannot make that decision for the buyer, nor can you, as a salesman; after all, we aren't the ones who will be playing that piano for the next several decades. I have my biases as well, probably more of them than most people contributing here. But I will never criticize someone for buying a quality instrument with the tone and touch that most appeals to them. I will, however, take issue with statements that I believe are false or misleading. Oh, and by the way, I think Yamaha makes darned excellent pianos, and I do mention them when people ask what brands to consider. Anyone considering a new instrument owes it to themself to try appropriate Yamaha models before making a final decision. Regards, Cork

Subject: Re: JK: Reply on Yamaha/Kawai From: JK To: Cork Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 08:24:03 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Cork, We are in complete agreement.I'm also in agreement with alot of other people in this forum that your comments are the most respected. Just for my own curiosity, what is your position in the piano profession.Are you a technician? Regards JK

Subject: Re: JK: Reply on Yamaha/Kawai From: Cork To: JK Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 11:44:38 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: JK, I'm a nobody. Don't sell, not a technician. I have a number of contacts in the industry, play a lot of pianos for fun (in my area and when I travel), and read voraciously (including Pianotech, among other sources). Frankly, I'm completely unqualified to write anything about this subject! And thanks for your kind words . . . Rgds, Cork

Subject: Re: JK: Reply on Yamaha/Kawai From: JK To: Cork Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 17:37:29 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Cork, I have enjoyed everyone's comments,especially yours,while reading through this forum.How you came up with 'I'm a nobody' from my question is beyond me.I agree with jodi, If anybody's a somebody in here.....it's you. Thank you again for sharing your knowledge with me. JK

Subject: Re: JK: Reply on Yamaha/Kawai From: Cork To: JK Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 17:54:07 (EST) Email Address: cvdh@my-Deja.com Message: JK, I was just being light-hearted about your question; I didn't take it in a negative sense at all. As far as professional credentials, I AM a nobody in this industry. You live it and breath it every working day, and your thoughts on the market and the process are extremely valuable in addition to your knowledge of the instruments themselves. We both have things to contribute, don't we? I'm grateful to have a forum like this in which to exchange information, and participants such as yourself who can teach me new things or open my mind to new perspectives. Regards, Cork

Subject: Nobodies From: David Burton To: Cork Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 13:13:50 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Cork in reply to JK said, 'I'm a nobody. Don't sell, not a technician. I have a number of contacts in the industry, play a lot of pianos for fun (in my area and when I travel), and read voraciously (including Pianotech, among other sources). Frankly, I'm completely unqualified to write anything about this subject! And thanks for your kind words. . . Rgds,' Well, I'm a 'nobody' too. I don't know any more than what I find out about this or any other subject. Of course I do have opinions, but they are open to change based on new evidence. One thing I have discovered is that this is a very much more of a fast changing business than it used to be. I am SO GRATEFUL that there is so much renewed interest in REAL pianos and in PLAYING them. Maybe if some physician could commission a study they'd discover that playing the piano was good for you in a number of life extending ways. For me, it's frankly something of a religion. I have no idea what I'd be without it. I've been working on a Chopin Nocturne, the one in G Major. It's been a process of getting the fingering and dexterity just right so that it sounds light and comes off without any effort. I simply love to sit down and play something from memory, just let it play through me as if it had a voice and message of its own. Of course, that's what we serious pianists want. I played another Chopin Nocturne on a Petrof II and almost cried with joy. It seemed that the piano and the piece were so perfectly matched. These are the sorts of things that we look for out there. I've really enjoyed participating in this forum too. It has been largely without the usual silly arguments that often break out. I think we can all be justly pleased with this, that we have to some extent created a kind of cyberspace neighborhood here. Now all we need to do is energize the pianos stores in our local areas to prepare their pianos better, get more people to go into piano technology as a career and get more people to sit in front of a piano instead of in front of a TV. We need more amateur piano recitals in our local areas too. Are you all interested?

Subject: Re: Nobodies From: Cork To: David Burton Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 15:32:07 (EST) Email Address: cvdh@my-Deja.com Message: David: ' . . . they'd discover that playing the piano was good for you in a number of life extending ways. For me, it's frankly something of a religion. I have no idea what I'd be without it. I've been working on a Chopin Nocturne, the one in G Major. It's been a process of getting the fingering and dexterity just right so that it sounds light and comes off without any effort. I simply love to sit down and play something from memory, just let it play through me as if it had a voice and message of its own. Of course, that's what we serious pianists want. I played another Chopin Nocturne on a Petrof II and almost cried with joy. It seemed that the piano and the piece were so perfectly matched. These are the sorts of things that we look for out there.' I know and love that feeling, when the piano just seems to sing out the music effortlessly. Like you, I think, music is so much a part of my being that I'd be a completely different person without it. Working for so many years to acquire and hone the ability to create music (rather than simply listen to it) shapes our personalities in ways we cannot even begin to understand. My wife is convinced that playing the piano is the only thing that keeps me (relatively) sane. David: 'I've really enjoyed participating in this forum too. It has been largely without the usual silly arguments that often break out. I think we can all be justly pleased with this, that we have to some extent created a kind of cyberspace neighborhood here.' Absolutely. A great group of people united by a love of music and fine instruments; and we've avoided the demeaning flame wars which break out with unfortunate regularity on rmmp. You and the others have all contributed to making this a wonderful resource. David: 'Now all we need to do is energize the pianos stores in our local areas to prepare their pianos better, get more people to go into piano technology as a career and get more people to sit in front of a piano instead of in front of a TV. We need more amateur piano recitals in our local areas too. Are you all interested?' Why not? But we have a new phenomenon shaping the future: the discovery that piano lessons help kids in school. All the Yuppies are out buying grands and getting their kids to take lessons so they can get better grades in school. And the instruments on the market today are probably better than at any time since the 40's or 50's. This could lead to a mild rebirth of the art of amateur musicmaking, particularly solo piano, over the next few decades. All that remains is for society to place as great a psychological value on skill in arts as in skill in football, soccer, baseball, basketball, etc. so that kids won't jettison music lessons when they turn 10 or 12. Cork

Subject: RMMP? From: jodi To: Cork Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 09:32:41 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: What is rmmp? (I found something with that name on the Piano Techicians page, but could only get to the FAQ part) Do you have to be a member?

Subject: Re: RMMP? From: Cork To: jodi Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 09:40:53 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: 'rmmp' is a Usenet group: rec.music.makers.piano that can be accessed through your ISP's news server or through one of a couple websites. Very interesting stuff, but the level of discussion often degenerates, unlike on this board. My recommendations: 1. Establish a free Internet e-mail address first; 2. Always post from your Internet e-mail address, never your home or work address (to protect you from the spam issue); 3. Access rmmp through Deja.com or one of its other competitors. Cork

Subject: Re: RMMP? From: jodi To: Cork Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 10:30:38 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks!

Subject: Re: Nobodies From: Alex To: Cork Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 16:31:07 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Cork, couldn't agree with your reply more. One fascinating thing that I am seeing with regards to amateur pianists are the new competitions that celebrate amateur pianism. David has the Northeastern competition on his web site. I participated last year in the first Van Cliburn international competition for amateurs. (I think the link will be shortly up on David's site.) Quite frankly, I was amazed at the level of artistry that I heard from doctors, business men and women, housewives, diplomats, etc. And the atmosphere was anything but competitive (until the finals as I understand). Rather, we all had a great week sharing our love of music (classical) and the piano. The event was such a success (covered nationally by the press and a wonderful article by Michael Kimmelman, who was a finalist, in the Sunday New York Magazine) that the Van Cliburn foundation plans to have it every other year from now on. For anyone who is interested, there is still time to enter this years competition. Audition tapes are due the end of March. Yes, there is a rebirth in progress. (Now if I only could get my daugher interested!!)

Subject: Anyone remember Emily Dickinson's poem? From: Joy To: Alex Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 22:12:16 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Alex, Both my neighbor and I (we both have sons who play piano) were profoundly moved and fascinated by the Michael Kimmelman piece in the Sunday NY Times Magazine.. Wow, and YOU were IN that competition! How fascinating, and how wonderful of you to jump in here! Can ANYONE audit the competition? I think my son would love to be in the audience for the next one. Joy

Subject: Re: Anyone remember Emily Dickinson's poem? From: Alex To: Joy Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 12:02:13 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Joy, the competition is open to the public. The hall holds several hundred and it was usually pretty full. However, how old is your son? Children under 8 were not admitted in deference to the performers.

Subject: Re: Anyone remember Emily Dickinson's poem? From: Joy To: Alex Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 13:39:27 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Alex, Thanks for your response. My son is 16, and a serious piano student who's planning to major in physics. It's not free, is it? Joy

Subject: Re: Anyone remember Emily Dickinson's poem? From: Alex To: Joy Date Posted: Thurs, Feb 03, 2000 at 09:43:12 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Joy, sorry, not free. But I don't think the tickets for the early rounds were that expensive. However, it's a lot of piano music for the price. Well worth it if you can make it to Ft. Worth. You can literally spend the whole day listening to live performances.

Subject: Re: Nobodies From: Cork To: Alex Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 16:55:55 (EST) Email Address: cvdh@my-Deja.com Message: Alex, You were in the first Van Cliburn!?! Fantastic! I very much wanted to get over to hear some of the performances, but was unable to get away from work. Obviously, it received quite a bit of attention here in the Dallas/Ft Worth area. Events such as these are bringing people into contact with others of similar interests, and re-opening a world saturated with radio and TV to music performed by real people. Congrats on participating. Now I wish more than ever that I had made it over to the performances. Cork

Subject: Re: Nobodies From: Alex To: Cork Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 18:13:47 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Yes, it was great. But I wish I had better news to report. The Schoenberg was excellent IMHO. BUT, the finale of the Appasionnata ran about three metronome clicks too fast and I lost control. However, the caliber of this competition was incredible. David Karp (who you may know) was a judge for the competition. He said that the jury pretty much agreed that the winner (can't remember his name) would have been a finalist in the REAL Van Cliburn. In fact, the five finalists were all incredible. Though I am not entering this year, (new job - too much travel) I plan to attend. Personnally, the first round is of more interest to me than the finals. That's where you will get to see amateur piano at its best (and worse). Truly, it's fascinating. If anyone on this forum decides to participate this year, please let us know.

Subject: Re: Nobodies and Piano Lessons From: David Burton To: Cork Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 15:53:53 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Cork says, 'All that remains is for society to place as great a psychological value on skill in arts as in skill in football, soccer, baseball, basketball, etc. so that kids won't jettison music lessons when they turn 10 or 12.' Well, this is going to be a subject, among others, that I am going to begin to take up on my website. It's going to be a thorny issue or series of issues and I am probably going to irritate or anger a few. I intend on playing a bit of cultural hard ball. Sorry it's time. We just came through a horrendous century in terms of human values. We experimented with people's lives in unprecedented ways. More people got themselves killed for a cause (and it wasn't religious folks!!!) than in any other century. The hubris of our technology has outstripped our common sense. We used to know things that we're now not so sure of. We've been led into error by a few extremely crazy people whose ideas on close examination seem either mad or frankly evil. What used to have value has none today and stuff that at least some of us would regard as garbage has been elevated in the scale of value way above its practical or other worth. There's really no need for despair and no I don't think we can ask 'society' to take the lead for us. We have the internet now, which is capable of creating many 'circles of interest'. If we want our kids to take piano lessons, we can generate our own support system to help us achieve what level of 'social sanctioning' we need to support our convictions on the internet. If they get better grades, make better human beings, are happier, healthier, smarter, achieve more in the future, etc. then perhaps they can look back over their shoulders from their piano benches and say, 'yes, playing the piano helped make me become what I am today.'

Subject: Re: Nobodies and Piano Lessons From: Joy To: David Burton Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 14:04:45 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Gee David. A new political movement could emerge. And it will be traced to . . . a select group of intense piano worshippers. Seriously though, I look forward to reading your next website feature. These are issues that I truly relate to. Love what you've been sharing on your piano explorations! Joy

Subject: Re: Nobodies and Piano Lessons From: David Burton To: Joy Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 14:31:44 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Joy - 'Gee David. A new political movement could emerge. And it will be traced to . . . a select group of intense piano worshippers.' LOL, that's right. We don't care what they look like, what their domestic policy is or their foreign policy either. We only care how well they play the piano !!! What if the debates were turned into a piano competition? If playing a violin is called fiddling, what is playing the piano called? Ergo, if politicians can fiddle around while things fall apart, what do they do if they're pianists? Oh, you know a large number of U.S. Presidents have been amateur pianists. Joy - 'Seriously though, I look forward to reading your next website feature. These are issues that I truly relate to.' Well a lot of it might be surprising to you and others. I'm hard to categorize on many issues except classical music and pianism, both of which it's fair to say I am completely sold on as of crucial importance. Joy - 'Love what you've been sharing on your piano explorations!' The pages on the New York piano store tour featured five stores. Three down, two to go... And Joy and others who have been reading what I put out there and responding to it, I want to say THANK-YOU (bowing graciously). It makes it all worthwhile.

Subject: Re: Nobodies and Piano Lessons From: CC To: David Burton Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 23:42:11 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Just had to throw in my two cents here too. Not only is music beneficial to children, but adults too. I purchased a piano simply because I missed it after being away from it for many years, and I knew it would be good for my kids, but have since discovered this is the best relief from daily stress I could have ever imagined. Just curious - I'm starting to get a little worried about the dexterity ever coming back in my fingers. Has anyone else had a long absence from piano and been able to play the way they used to? Lately, I've been practicing Fur Elise until my hands can't play anymore, but am still so far from playing it the way it's supposed to be. Does it ever come back?!

Subject: Re: Does It Ever Come Back? From: David Burton To: CC Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 13:39:33 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Does dexterity once had as a child or young adult 'come back' later in life? Real interesting topic. Here's my sense of it. First of all there have been various periods when for want of an instrument or just being busy doing other things, I was unable to play. Of course my technique suffered. Things I'd played before and played well began to slip away from me. Eventually I got a good enough piano and began again to set to work building a repertoire. That is a key issue, building repertoire. As you can see from my webpage, I have a targeted repertoire out there, a set of pieces that might form the basis for two or three recitals, should I ever decide to get out there and perform in public, which is another issue. I have always had to start again very slowly and build up over weeks and months back to something like where I was before technically. I highly recommend the SLOW approach. Don't try and scale Parnassus in one leap or you'll fall and may be so knocked out that you'll give up the attempt ever again. Hanon and Czerny have their points, especially Czerny because his exercises are usually actual pieces that have some musical content that can actually be played in recitals. Yes, this was done when I was a kid. Hanon on the other hand has a significant disadvantage. It tends to foster a notion that an unconscious and repetitious practice of finger exercises will build good pianism. I contend that it doesn't and that on the other hand a conscious attention to every note played, to the fingering used in a phrase, to the forearm and elbow motion required, to breathing and posture are the way to attain optimum pianism. The other factor, the one we spend most time on here, is of course the piano itself. It should be in good tune and regulation. However if the room its in is too live then there will be undesirable bounce back of sound that isn't the piano's fault. Oh, and as far as grands go, I always liked playing them with the lids closed most of the time. When I had people to play for, then I'd open the lid, put the music desk down and play from memory. Now there's a third factor. We are living in an extraordinary time in history. Some age old barriers concerning health and aging are going to be broken through in the next twenty years. Certain disabilities that are common today may be cured very soon and go the way of polio, small pox or yellow fever. One of them that affects some pianists is arthritis. We now have some powerful substances that one can take to stop or reverse arthritis. Another area is hormone and amino acid therapy. I am particularly interested in this one. I have been taking DHEA precursors for a while now and Ginko Biloba. I have noticed a difference. If one is what one eats as well as what one accepts in one's mind or what one selectively allows to become part of oneself, like choosing which piece of music to put in one's repertoire, then it is certainly true that in order to recoup the losses from aging, we must all pay closer attention to our diets and supplementation as well as light exercise, etc.

Subject: Re: Does It Ever Come Back? From: jodi To: David Burton Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 14:18:53 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Sorry, David - but I must disagree with your Hanon comment! Only because of my experience a long while back. I had been without a piano for regular practice for about 4 years, and became a roommate of someone with a grand (lucky me!). One of my favorite pieces is the first one in Debussy's Childrens Corner (Dr. Gratus au Parnassum or something like that!) - anyway -parts of it require hanon-like precision, and it just wasn't there any more. So I spent several weeks playing nothing but the hanon exercises - and I was amazed at all the pieces that I was able to play well again, after stumbling through them the month before. The reason I prefer Hanon to Czerny - is because the exercises are EASY to sight-read (even my 8 year old can do some of them), you can start at your own pace and work up from there (use a metronome, it helps) No, they do not help you with 'musicality' - but that doesn't mean they aren't useful for dexterity.

Subject: Re: Nobodies and Piano Lessons From: jodi To: CC Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 09:26:35 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Play some of the excercises by Hanon - thats what my husband does every night for about 15 minutes - and I have noticed a big improvement in his playing. It helps to use a metronome, and to play them both legato and staccato. They are pretty boring, but they help.

Subject: Re: Nobodies and Piano Lessons From: Ray To: CC Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 08:15:11 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: CC, Found your post interesting because I'm in somewhat the same situation. I played the piano long ago, took lessons for 12 years, quit when I started college, didn't play for years while I worked and took care of ill and aging parents. Now, with retirement on the not-too-distant horizon, I've begun playing again. The hardest part was starting: at first, I sounded so bad that I could barely stand to listen to my own playing. It took about three months (1 to 2 hours practice each evening) to reach the point where I feel that my playing is actually tolerable sometimes. I keep hoping, too, that my dexterity will come back. I'm working on some Czerny studies, a collection of etudes by various composers, and a Beethoven Bagatelle that I learned (and played well) when I was 14 or 15 years old. My practice sessions are enjoyable (I look forward to them all through the day), sometimes frustrating, always worthwhile (much more so that virtually anything on T.V.). The issue of dexterity if one that I tackle frequently. My fingers used to fly over the keys; now they seem to crawl. Czerny helps, so do Hanon and the other etudes I'm working on. My best suggestion is to do some work with studies like those and gain some mastery of them at the same time you're working on 'real' music. If I begin my practice with 30-45 minutes of dexterity studies, my work on music and my whole session at the piano seem more profitable and satisfying.

Subject: Re: Nobodies and Piano Lessons From: ryan To: Ray Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 11:34:14 (EST) Email Address: ryan@xilinx.com Message: I know what you mean about not being able to stand to hear yourself play. I was away from the piano for a while and felt the same way when I started to play again. For somebody who has been away from the piano for a long time I would highly recommend finding a good piano coach to help get back in shape. A piano coach can help you with the pieces you are working, offer excercises to help regain wrist flexibility, and show you tricks to playing tough passages. This last point is very important. Trying to tackle a tough passage without knowing the right technique leads to frustration and can lead to injury.

Subject: Re: Nobodies and Piano Lessons From: Lyn To: CC Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 07:28:41 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Hello CC, I haven't been away from piano entirely, but a few years ago my piano finally died. It was the same one I've had all my life. It wasn't much, just a little Henry F. Miller spinet. I eventually gave it away. My husband surprised me with a Kurzweil 2500XL for Christmas about three years ago. It's wonderful for recording and I have made some great soundtracks with it. It's HORRIBLE for practice. Sitting down to a real piano I can tell I've lost some dexterity and I have to work much harder to bring out the expression and voicing. It's real hard to even have the motivation to practice. When I sit at a real piano and start playing something like Beethoven's Pathetique or some Bach Inventions, I am sooooooo sloppy with them at first I almost embarrass myself! After I've played for a couple of hours, everything including the lost dexterity DOES begin to return. I know if I had daily access to a piano, I would regain a lot of what I've lost. My point with this loooonnnng reply is that I think if you keep practicing, your lost dexterity should begin to return. Also, check your local music store for some good technique and exersize books. You might want to try backing up a level or so and work your way back to where you were before. I may have to do that myself when I'm finally able to get a good piano. Good luck! Lyn

Subject: Re: Thanks for your comments From: CC To: Lyn Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 20:29:03 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Thanks everybody for all of your comments! I am going to try many of your suggestions and see if that helps. I can certainly relate to the comments about not being able to stand listening to yourself play. I've been taping myself and sometimes can't stand playing it back!

Subject: Re: Nobodies and Piano Lessons From: Mick To: David Burton Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 19:43:07 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I just had to jump in here. We have owned our piano for only two weeks now, and I can already see how it is changing our lives. The piano, not the t.v., is the focus of our evenings. My 9 year old daughter can't stay away from it, and I have seen her abilities grow significantly since she stepped away from her electronic keyboard. She is getting much more artful in her playing and is beginning to show a great deal of expression. The difference is astounding! I have also joined her on my drums (they're in the same location) to help her with her sense of rhythm. I must say she is rock solid, and it has warmed my heart to have an activity we can enjoy together. I have also purchased beginner music for myself that I spend hours trying to master. It is a labor of love and is much more relaxing than anything I have found in a while. All this is a long winded way of agreeing with David Burton. I am also a nobody, but it is this forum that started, and maintained my interest. I can only say that I know 100% more now than I knew when I started.

Subject: Re: JK: Reply on Yamaha/Kawai From: jodi To: Cork Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 12:48:54 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I would say that with all of your reading, your obvious interest, your playing, and your diplomatic way with words makes you a definite SOMEBODY - both qualified and worth listening to.

Subject: Isn't Piano Rage Great? From: Joy To: jodi Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 21:52:35 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Cork, I don't think I could possibly express it any better than Jodi just did. It all comes through very clearly and concisely in the way you express your ideas. Intelligence and good sense always shines through your comments. Nobody, ha! Boy, am I impressed with all the thoughts coming out on this thread! Important ideas that really touch my own personal concerns. I'll need to digest them further before sharing some feedback on them. Making music and appreciating a beautiful complex instrument like the piano brings out higher ideas, I think. This is quite a well-versed community indeed. Makes me happy and proud to participate in it! :) Joy PS: Did the face turn around and yellow? See, it only works on THIS forum, Jodi. I usually put mine on a line by itself.

Subject: Re: Isn't Piano Rage Great? From: Ben To: Joy Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 03:57:14 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I'm laughing! :) ;)

Subject: wow From: Cork To: jodi Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 15:03:43 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Jeez, keep that up and I might actually start believing the stuff I write! Serious, thanks for the kind words.

Subject: Re: JK: Reply on Yamaha/Kawai From: Joy To: Cork Date Posted: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 13:22:57 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Cork says: 'I have my biases as well, probably more of them than most people contributing here. But I will never criticize someone for buying a quality instrument with the tone and touch that most appeals to them. I will, however, take issue with statements that I believe are false or misleading.' Well put, Cork. Glad you are here to read all the piano opinions being bandied about, and the fact you don't hesitate to step in to clarify any ideas that could be misleading. Here here! Joy

Subject: Thanks, Joy From: Cork To: Joy Date Posted: Sat, Jan 29, 2000 at 15:26:52 (EST) Email Address: cvdh@my-Deja.com Message: I appreciate the support! Comparing pianos is so subjective, and it is too easy to begin to believe our own opinions are true for everyone. Probably the most important 'fact' is that no one piano is best for every person. I think we should all try to identify our opinions separate from facts; certainly we would find that there are far more of the former than there are of the latter. I'm going to try harder to do so. By the way, I've started to put together a website with photos of my kids (nothing as elaborate as David's site, but it's a start!) If you are interested in seeing the pix, send me an e-mail at cvdh@my-Deja.com and I'll send you the web address. Regards, Cork

Subject: I agree CORK From: Nelson To: Cork Date Posted: Fri, Jan 28, 2000 at 14:41:01 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: YAMAHA does make darn excellent pianos!!!!!!!!!

Subject: PLEASE HELP!!! anyone ever heard of a collinwood piano?? From: Greg To: All Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 17:07:19 (EST) Email Address: gcowan@bloomington.in.us Message: My friend has recieved a piano which is called a collinwood from an elderly lady who claims she brought it to the US from England circa 1930. There is no other script on the piano, just collinwood. I haven`t been able to find any info on it at all. Can someone please help????

Subject: Re: PLEASE HELP!!! anyone ever heard of a collinwood piano?? From: David Burton To: Greg Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 22:57:37 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: The Pierce Piano Atlas lists a COLLINGSWOOD piano maker in London, no further information.

Subject: Piano tuning schools From: Lee To: All Date Posted: Fri, Jan 28, 2000 at 21:27:38 (EST) Email Address: Wick1976@aol.com Message: I am looking for a piano tuning school for a patient. Does any one know of one where the person can go and learn? Not interested in correspondance schools, but hands on learning Thanks to all please send email........

Subject: Re: Piano tuning schools From: sam lewis piano To: Lee Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 19:57:55 (EST) Email Address: samlewis@peoplepc.com Message: try www.pianotuningschool.org. Also go to pianotech.org for suggestions...........Sam

Subject: Re: Piano tuning schools From: Cork To: sam lewis piano Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 21:23:48 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: I think you mean www.ptg.org

Subject: New or Old From: . To: All Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 15:45:54 (EST) Email Address: va.huotarinen@raketti.net Message: There are two pianos: 23 years old black, about 123 cm height Kawai (perfekt condition) and new black same size Kawai CX-21. The question is which one I buy and why ? Prize is about same!

Subject: Re: New or Old From: jim To: . Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 18:26:29 (EST) Email Address: eileenjim@erols.com Message: How much is the dealer asking for each piano?

Subject: Re: New or Old From: Cork To: . Date Posted: Tues, Feb 01, 2000 at 16:25:31 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: If I take this correctly, you are looking at two equivalent pianos, one 23yrs old, the other new, for the same price. Buy the new one. Pianos do deteriorate over time and with use.

Subject: Re: New or Old From: andy To: Cork Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 11:07:28 (EST) Email Address: va.huotarinen@raketti.net Message: Cork: Pianos are not equivalent even though as heigh, black and polish they are. Why I asked is because dealer says that older Kawai- ,exatly 23 years older, (I donīt know what or how 'good' model it is, 121?) is better made and better piano than the new Kawai CX-21 and thatīs why the prize is allmost same.I donīt know can it be so. Do I believe that dealer ?

Subject: Re: New or Old From: Cork To: andy Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 13:14:27 (EST) Email Address: Not Provided Message: Cork: Pianos are not equivalent even though as heigh, black and polish they are. Why I asked is because dealer says that older Kawai- ,exatly 23 years older, (I donīt know what or how 'good' model it is, 121?) is better made and better piano than the new Kawai CX-21 and thatīs why the prize is allmost same.I donīt know can it be so. Do I believe that dealer ? --- Andy, It is possible that the new Kawai was not made in Japan, while it is certain that the old one was made in Japan. That may be the reason for the dealer's claim that the older piano is better. However, Kawai's quality control is very good, so I would not be concerned about purchasing a non-Japanese Kawai. In my opinion, a 23-year-old Japanese upright can not possibly be better than a new equivalent model from the same manufacturer. Period. If you aren't comfortable with the dealer, consider looking at the Yamaha uprights. They are very nice, indeed. Cork

Subject: HISTORY SEARCHING From: PC To: All Date Posted: Sun, Jan 30, 2000 at 19:24:47 (EST) Email Address: GRANYCLARY@AOL.COM Message: HAVE A PIANO/ WADE/ MADE BY HUGHS & SON/ 4344 SOMEONE DATED 1/6/07 WHEN THEY TUNED IT. CAN ANYONE TELL ME THE APX AGE AND WHERE I CAN FIND SOMETHING. I AM A NEW BEGINNER. JUST LOVE MY OLD PIANO.

Subject: Re: HISTORY SEARCHING From: David Burton To: PC Date Posted: Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 14:12:39 (EST) Email Address: dpbmss@aol.com Message: Hughs & Sons must have been a tiny piano maker that wasn't in business very long. They were out of Foxcroft, MAINE, established 1866. Get a piano tech to look over your piano, establish its worth, determine its quality, figure out whether you want to put more money into it. It might or might not be worth it. Consider this; most upright pianos sold for a few hundred dollars when made. Of course a dollar was worth more then than now, but we are seeing a squeeze put on upright pianos by two factors 1) grand pianos are getting better and cheaper so more attractive, especially two European babies (Estonia and Petrof) and 2) the newest uprights have such improved actions over the older ones as to all but rival grand pianos and they also are getting cheaper. Of course a used upright piano will always be cheaper than anything else and the older it is, unless it's a Steinway, M & H, Knabe, Chickering, Baldwin or IVERS & POND, it will not pay to put much money into it. Now I have heard and played a few of these, 'rebuilt' old uprights and they were absolutely wonderful pianos.